60-man rule

[kyuss]

mimicing the nhl isnt realistic in this situation we do not have to ice a full ahl team as well as an nhl team
23 man roster
37 in reserves

however, we still have a 7 rounds Entry draft like the NHL.. the fact we don't need to dress a AHL team doesn't mean we don't lose assets when cutting players that could later play in the NHL.
Plus, the fact we don't have AHL teams to dress, means that some teams in our league feel fine with 25 players (Pitts), or less than 40 anyways.. which means the NHL talent pool available for the other teams is larger than the average one available for real NHL teams.. hence some of us will find themselves having to cut legit prospects (yeah, we could have traded away all our 2010 entry draft picks instead, but drafting according to our tastes and opinions and later seeing the results is one of the things that makes a league like this so much fun).

[bills09]

Name one legit prospect in bbkl that has been cut because of the roster cap.

i garentee that everyone in this league has players on their rosters that will 100% never make the nhl, release them if your too close, make a tough decision.

[kyuss]

Name one legit prospect in bbkl that has been cut because of the roster cap.

i garentee that everyone in this league has players on their rosters that will 100% never make the nhl, release them if your too close, make a tough decision.

so.. out of the 6-9 guys i'll just have drafted, i'll have to drop some.. tough decision indeed when they won't have played real hockey again before october. Hence the consequence would be dropping players already on the roster that are actually closer to make it to the big league.
Suppose one GM turns out to be a genius, and/or very lucky, and he drafts 20 NHL players in 2 yrs.. is there a logic reason* why he should be penalized and forced to drop some of them?
I can see the purpose of the rule in limiting the waivers pickups and especially FA signings, but the fact it ends up affecting the value of entry draftees (and draft picks in the 1st place) doesn't make sense imo.

*aside from: this was the established rule when we started.. i mean, i guess other rules have been amended along time.

[armandtanzarian]

I like our plan and numbers set. Why not drop the draft to 5 rounds and give some value to the picks. There needs to be some players to play around with throughout the year. Claiming FA is quite fun. For the teams that are at the 60 man limit that is your problem to deal with now before the season starts. Manage your spots and plan for the 5 player increase each year instead of having 30 players as your property from the same draft year. We started last season and are aiming for NHL parity but we need some development time as a league. A lot of time and discussion went into this plan and it has merit. Lets just follow it and manage our rosters to our league standards.

[armandtanzarian]

Name one legit prospect in bbkl that has been cut because of the roster cap.

i garentee that everyone in this league has players on their rosters that will 100% never make the nhl, release them if your too close, make a tough decision.

Totally agree Billy. Claiming FA's in the season is awesome and having available roster spots is part of fantasy. If your @ 60 I think you are pushing your luck and putting yourself in a corner. You limit possible trades as well as signings.

[inferno31]

I like our plan and numbers set. Why not drop the draft to 5 rounds and give some value to the picks. There needs to be some players to play around with throughout the year. Claiming FA is quite fun. For the teams that are at the 60 man limit that is your problem to deal with now before the season starts. Manage your spots and plan for the 5 player increase each year instead of having 30 players as your property from the same draft year. We started last season and are aiming for NHL parity but we need some development time as a league. A lot of time and discussion went into this plan and it has merit. Lets just follow it and manage our rosters to our league standards.

Can't drop to 5 rounds we've traded picks already to 2013 now. You'd have to limit that. BTW there should be a rule how far ahead you can trade picks.

[shooker]

100% agree neel imo its rediculous to even mention 2013's at this point

[armandtanzarian]

Good point Neel, didn't think about that. But yea...2013 picks..lol too far ahead and not manageable imo.

[Nick]

Fak I said it in the threads when it started to happen w/o any support!


Personally I like the idea of a term relative asset-restrriction rules.

2-weeks - 1 year = 1 year ahead of current draft
1 year -2 years = 1 year ahead of current draft + 2years for rounds3-7
2 years + = 2 years ahead of current draft

on some such.

[Robin Hood]

Name one legit prospect in bbkl that has been cut because of the roster cap.

i garentee that everyone in this league has players on their rosters that will 100% never make the nhl, release them if your too close, make a tough decision.

Totally agree Billy. Claiming FA's in the season is awesome and having available roster spots is part of fantasy. If your @ 60 I think you are pushing your luck and putting yourself in a corner. You limit possible trades as well as signings.

This argument doesnt make sense guys, because:

1) certain gms can actually draft more nhl ready players and hence will face tougher decisions and
2) in 2-3 years as gms accumulate more and more 1st and 2nd rounders this problem is going to force GOOD prospects to be dropped.

I have NO problem with a solution being implemented where we are able to add a higher number of players to the roster size every year. Instead of +5 every year, make it +7 (the number of draft rounds). whats wrong with that?

[Shep]

....

I thought that 60 max was total players as assets. Not 60 CONTRACTED.

When did this 80 come in? When was it announced?

[inferno31]

....

I thought that 60 max was total players as assets. Not 60 CONTRACTED.

When did this 80 come in? When was it announced?

80 is the NHL's real rule. Were moving towards that goal eventually.

[Tony]

When I joined I had a butt load of waiver picks and lower draft picks ... I guess these mean nothing? Also, people will only trade for 2012/13 picks because they don't have room for more players ... can we just fix this?

What would be the point of draft after the 3rd round then? I'm going to have to cut them anyhow. Being the 2nd worst team in the league when I took over, and all my high picks being gone before I got here, I rely on those prospects that take a little longer to develop.

Yeah yeah, it was in the rules blah blah ... these can be easily amended. If 60/80 is too much too soon, do 55/70 or something similar.

[Shoalzie]

I'm glad it went up from 55 to 60 but it really doesn't need to keep going up. I think everyone when they get up to the limit have to make some tough choices or just need to cut bait with guys that are either playing in Europe with no signs of returning. Plus, teams need to know that they shouldn't go into a draft with 15 picks when they've got only 8 spots left.

I am right up on 60 with players and my 4 draft picks. I made it a point back in 60 to get my roster numbers to the limit so I don't get hosed with having to dump a guy that I'd rather keep. Everyone should be conscious of where they are at with assets and don't go hog wild adding as many pieces as they can. How many players do we honestly need?

[kyuss]

I'm glad it went up from 55 to 60 but it really doesn't need to keep going up. I think everyone when they get up to the limit have to make some tough choices or just need to cut bait with guys that are either playing in Europe with no signs of returning.

i really don't get this.. if one of your good players leaves for Europe you are already on the unlucky side of things.. so a situation that makes you cut that player and prevent you to ever use him again, making the damage definitive, just make things worse.

How many players do we honestly need?

honestly what's so hard to get? the more prospects you can draft and hold on, the more chances you'll get value out of your selections..

again, i can see the point in preventing teams from signing many FAs, but i don't understand why we should penalize who wants to build through the draft: and for those who were given bad teams without top picks, build through the draft means relying on a number of lower selections..

remember:
- the good players never become free agents in this league
- odds are the teams that have many good players (and could afford trading some) are the ones run by the best GMs, hence they will NOT give you those good players unless you overpay.. they are contender, so they are not going to trade you top players unless they get back something that can help 'em competing now.. hence, you're not going to get top players from them for a package of future assets..unless you really overpay. So if you want get good players without losing as much or more, you have to 'build' them by yourself.. waiting for your prospects, drafting more and better.. but even if you would have the patience to wait for them to be ready to contribute, you won't be free to wait, cause you'll be forced to cut some of them earlier than you would want.
Status quo is already difficult enough to overcome in a league without free agency, why making life even more miserable for teams trying to overturn their situation building long term?

[Shoalzie]

In response, I'll say why hang onto a prospect that is toiling away in the minors? Not every guy that gets drafted is bound to play in the NHL. There's no sense in carrying 50 or 60 or some other ungodly number of prospects. Each year teams need to just decide when to cut bait with players that aren't going make it. There's no points earned in having the impressive prospects...they're like scratch-off tickets. When they move onto the NHL, that is when they're true value is realized. But if they don't make it, then they're disposable. I love the idea of having a pool of prospects to hang onto...we just don't need to keep jacking up the roster size each year just because someone wants to hoard prospects.

[inferno31]

In response, I'll say why hang onto a prospect that is toiling away in the minors? Not every guy that gets drafted is bound to play in the NHL. They're not all going to play in the NHL. There's no sense in carrying 50 or 60 or some other ungodly number of prospects. Each year teams need to just decide when to cut bait with players just aren't going make it. There's no points earned in having the impressive prospects...they're like scratch-off tickets. When they move onto the NHL, that is when they're true value is realized. But if they don't make it, then they're disposable. I love the idea of having a pool of prospects to hang onto...we just don't need to keep jacking up the roster size each year just because someone wants to hoard prospects.

Guys like him
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdis ... ?pid=49097

Drafted in 7th round
8 points in top division, 15 in lower division in the following year. 4 points the year after.
If we have 7 rounds like the NHL, we need the same system as the NHL IMO.
They have professional scouts and millions of dollars go into making their decisions on who to draft, to develop and to keep. I have the internet and my free time. We should at least have the same set up as them.

[shooker]

haha well played neel!

[Shep]

Neel wins my vote.

[Shoalzie]

Guys like him
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdis ... ?pid=49097

Drafted in 7th round
8 points in top division, 15 in lower division in the following year. 4 points the year after.
If we have 7 rounds like the NHL, we need the same system as the NHL IMO.
They have professional scouts and millions of dollars go into making their decisions on who to draft, to develop and to keep. I have the internet and my free time. We should at least have the same set up as them.

That guy obviously hits close to home with me but the Wings are also off-the-charts when it comes to getting value late in the draft. Also, that '98 6th round actually produced several solid players including Andrei Markov, Trent Hunter and Ales Kotalik. Roughly 2/3 of those guys in that round never saw action in the NHL and that was back when the draft was 9 rounds and you had guys making the later rounds like Karlis Skrastins and Michael Ryder. They're scratch-off tickets...they can hit the jackpot or they can be worth nothing. It does take time to figure that out...I won't argue with that.

We're entering the second season and the second year of accumulating talent. I'm fine with us continuing on with the same format but I think we all need to deal with tough decisions at some point where we have to say "this guy isn't going to cut it, I have to move on". So you strikeout with a prospect...they're not all going to be stars. If 4 years down the road, you have a guy that is stuck in the AHL and doesn't show any signs of taking the next step...then get rid of them. If someone wants to take them on in a trade...so be it. These guys have a shelf life...they can either be 15 year pros or they can become career minor leaguers or complete washouts after 3 years.