The Ryan Suter has no value aka value for puck movers thread

[shooker]

I personally think that defensemen are miss represented statistically in this league making any Dman with a high salary virtually worthless. Players are willing to hold onto players like Patrick Kane, Alexander Semin, Brad Richards, Phil Kessel and previously Ilya Kovalchuk because, although fairly one dimensional while carrying a high price tag, they still are able to hit enough scoring categories to make them valuable. I feel that stat representation is missing for Dmen thus making players like Brian Campbell, Drew Doughty, Jaybo, Dan Boyle etc worth far less then an = high price forward.

The second problem I see is that offensive dmen are worth far less then a pure h2h dman. The fact dmen like Yandle or Martin are worth less then some 2nd/3rd pairing defensemen is a bit of a problem. Yandle doesn't kill penalties and both he and martin don't hit, but they were both in the top 25 for defensive points and played top pairing minutes on their respective clubs. Hell yandle even lead his team in points lol.

My suggestion would be to swap out a lesser stat in our current league for one that will properly represent the high minute, puck moving dman. I would personally take out shut outs, as it is a stat that is usually a tie, +/- could be another stat and put in a stat like DEF. DEF is a separate stat only for dmen that counts their point totals. IE Karlson has a 1G, 2A game, he wwould get his G + 2A in the regular columns but would also be awarded a 3 in the DEF cat. It would add a lot to the market price of dmen such as yandle, suter, doughty etc imo.

Obviously I am entirely ok with keeping the scoring system status quo, but I feel if there is a chance for improvement, we owe it to ourselves to at least discuss that. Also if someone else had a category suggestion, list it here.

Thoughts?

[cliff11]

pick up your phone

[shooker]

pick up your phone

I'm screening my calls

[cliff11]

I personally think that defensemen are miss represented statistically in this league making any Dman with a high salary virtually worthless. Players are willing to hold onto players like Patrick Kane, Alexander Semin, Brad Richards, Phil Kessel and previously Ilya Kovalchuk because, although fairly one dimensional while carrying a high price tag, they still are able to hit enough scoring categories to make them valuable. I feel that stat representation is missing for Dmen thus making players like Brian Campbell, Drew Doughty, Jaybo, Dan Boyle etc worth far less then an = high price forward.

The second problem I see is that offensive dmen are worth far less then a pure h2h dman. The fact dmen like Yandle or Martin are worth less then some 2nd/3rd pairing defensemen is a bit of a problem. Yandle doesn't kill penalties and both he and martin don't hit, but they were both in the top 25 for defensive points and played top pairing minutes on their respective clubs. Hell yandle even lead his team in points lol.

My suggestion would be to swap out a lesser stat in our current league for one that will properly represent the high minute, puck moving dman. I would personally take out shut outs, as it is a stat that is usually a tie, +/- could be another stat and put in a stat like DEF. DEF is a separate stat only for dmen that counts their point totals. IE Karlson has a 1G, 2A game, he wwould get his G + 2A in the regular columns but would also be awarded a 3 in the DEF cat. It would add a lot to the market price of dmen such as yandle, suter, doughty etc imo.

Obviously I am entirely ok with keeping the scoring system status quo, but I feel if there is a chance for improvement, we owe it to ourselves to at least discuss that. Also if someone else had a category suggestion, list it here.

Thoughts?

seems like a legit idea to me bryan

[cliff11]

pick up your phone

I'm screening my calls

id do the same, it might be the doc with some bad news haha kidding man

[Robin Hood]

I like the idea.

[Sensfanjosh]

What about a cat for defensemen minutes played or something? All the D-men you mentioned would be among top in a cat like that would they not?

[cliff11]

pick up your phone

I'm screening my calls

id do the same, it might be the doc with some bad news haha kidding man

give me a ring man

[shooker]

pick up your phone

I'm screening my calls

id do the same, it might be the doc with some bad news haha kidding man

haha that only happened once.

just finished my workout, need to shower then I'll find my phone/call you.

[cliff11]

pick up your phone

I'm screening my calls

id do the same, it might be the doc with some bad news haha kidding man

haha that only happened once.

just finished my workout, need to shower then I'll find my phone/call you.

sounds good

[Lee]

You guys are making these punch lines too easy.

I'll leave this low hanging fruit to Steve. He's into that kind of thing.

[shooker]

What about a cat for defensemen minutes played or something? All the D-men you mentioned would be among top in a cat like that would they not?

I actually thought about that and here is where I feel the problem lies. Big minute dmen who aren't puck movers, are generally represented rather well in other h2h categories, IE BS, Hits, SHTOI etc, this would only further their worth. I feel the problem more so lies with the star dmen who aren't big physical forces out there, think lidstrom vs stevens, which one would hold more value? now which one is better?

The problem with adding toi would help all dmen that play minutes. The idea imo is to add value to those not receiving their proper value and imo that is done by creating a stat that helps them out more then players who don't do what they do. IE Andrew Macdonald would receive the same scoring benefits as Keith Yandle from TOI but yandle would be given much more added worth with DEF. That, imo, is where the problem lies, and not with overall defensive worth.

Defensive TOI would be overkill imo and just add more worth to all dmen in general but not fix what I feel is the current issue at stake.

[Lee]

You are also assuming that this stat is available in CBS.

Is it?

I haven't checked.

[Robin Hood]

Btw - the stat I would swap out is Shutouts - it already gets factored into SV% and GAA if it happens.

[cliff11]

or we can run 17 cats

[Peter]

I think this is a great idea - Erik Karlsson owner

[shooker]

You are also assuming that this stat is available in CBS.

Is it?

I haven't checked.

I haven't checked. Don't know how lol.


I entirely agree shiv. Shutouts for me is a wasted cat and always has been. Even when I had lundqvist snag 11 for me in one season.

[The BBKL Insider]

IT'S A decent idea for sure

well thought out shooker

[shooker]

I think this is a great idea - Erik Karlsson owner

he would definitely hold more value, you would still need 5 other defensemen to win that cat every week though haha.

[Arian The Insider]

good point and good idea IMO