** 13/14 REGULAR SEASON STANDINGS ** [Updated Till: Week 21]

[Robin Hood]

You've now totally contradicted yourself.


Either the 'game' is each category and our standings make some sense, or 'a game' is the week and our standing system is full of statistical error.

Why do we care, outside of the head to head match-up, how many categories you win by? why is that more valued than winning a category by a 3:1 margin ?

Not contradicted myself at all. I've said all along that the purpose of categories is 1) to lower variance and 2) measure magnitude.

Not to mention you haven't addressed either of the two points I just made. Come up with why the thinking on either is wrong and we can continue.

[CAM]

Most people prefer the current system, so I cannot see that changing. We've had it since the leagues inception, and whether some of us prefer WLT, there's no chance it would change barring an overwhelming 80%+ in favour. Whereas I believe it's about 80% in favour of the current scoring system, which I understand.

Lower teams want to show growth and that is much more evident if you start winning 2-3 of the same categories every week (niche categories like Hits, SHTOI, etc). I can only imagine it's more fun for Dallas facing Boston thinking "I wonder if I can take 4-6 categories from Boston" rather than "well here's a loss, who do I face next week?"

This is as good of an example that one can give and about as in depth as i want to get. I totally agree.

[CAM]

PS. I do statistics all fucking day. I hate them. I hate all your words you two.....Variance, error variance, statistical meaning, measure, standard deviation, mean basal area... [insert giant fart noise]

[Nick]

Not contradicted myself at all. I've said all along that the purpose of categories is 1) to lower variance and 2) measure magnitude.

Not to mention you haven't addressed either of the two points I just made. Come up with why the thinking on either is wrong and we can continue.

I think you meant increase variance ? (as in desired measured variance).

I agree in some sense that our 16 categories were designed to increase range of what we compare. More than just typical scoring, we examine a wide range of categories.

but they are not more good variance when making a comparison across match-ups. How many categories you won versus Billy is not reflective of how many points you earned versus Chris.

2) it's a partial measure of magnitude, why is winning shtoi by .01 second worth the same as winning goals by 10 ? and how is that a good comparison when you actually lost SHTOI to a bunch of other teams?
it's a really messed up comparison

Like I said before, comparing lots of categories between you and your opponent = excellent, and one of the best designed features of this league

comparing number of categories won against opponents you didn't face = oops. wtf does that mean!

[Robin Hood]

2) it's a partial measure of magnitude, why is winning shtoi by .01 second worth the same as winning goals by 10 ?

This is a point I whole-heartedly agree with. It is not a fully encompassing measure of magnitude. It is not perfect by any means. But I'd rather this than straight W-L-T to remove magnitude altogether.

and how is that a good comparison when you actually lost SHTOI to a bunch of other teams?

This is something you need to learn to live with. I had 37 points this week and would have beaten Mike and Steve if I played them this week.

But that is the price of H2H and keeping things entertaining.


Also - while we are arguing this, I do think there is a point of agreement between us. But just think about teams who will literally stop paying attention if their entire season is simply Wins or Losses. Dallas, Carolina etc literally will not pay attention when they face a top team.

In an ideal world, we would use the "Breakdown" tab on CBS to measure standings lol. But that's no fun. And this system does work for us and has for years. I think that's the main reason people won't even listen to your arguments on W-L-T. Because EVEN if you are right (I don't think you are at all lol but let's put that aside), they'd rather go with the system that keeps them entertained on a day-to-day basis.

[kimmer]

thats not the entertaining part of H2H - it's actually the most annoying/cheese part of it.

[CAM]

Can someone post a pic of the schedule? Blocked from google docs. sucks.

[KapG]

how bout i just tell you who you play the rest of the weeks?

[KapG]

how bout i just tell you who you play the rest of the weeks?

Cam your schedule to end the year is SJS, EDM, DET, TBL

I have STL, NSH, WSH, NYI :S

[KapG]

hmm, im doing OK for a pretty tough schedule...

MIN*, CAR, COL*, PHI (before rebuild/tank), MTL*, BOS*, BUF, DAL, CBJ*, PIT*, TBL*, TOR*, FLA, DET, OTT*, WPG, STL*, NSH*, WSH*, NYI*


Put an asterisk beside each top team I played. Only really had 4 easy weeks and im sitting pretty well. Hope the boys can keep 'er going

[kyuss]

as for the standings, i'm fine with the top 3 teams of each division to be granted a playoff spot no matter what, but having their seed protected on top of that seems retarded.

Why should a team like Montreal that has more pts than any team in the Metropolitan save for the Penguins (and could even top them) receive a worse seed than the Islanders and the Rangers?
I would get reserving the seed of the division winner, but beyond that? really? i guess that's what the NHL uses? but even if that's the case i think taking away that block in determining the playoff seeds (not spots) would help fairness along with enhancing interest in the last few weeks as standings would be more dynamic.

In the West the situation is not much better, as i'll be rated lower than a team like PHX that will finish with 40 less pts than mine. This also screws the top 2 teams in the conference, as they will face a better opponent despite the fact they earned the right to face the 2 worse qualifiers in their conference.
Again, is that how it really works for the NHL? we should still move away from that next season.

[KapG]

the old way was so much better. These new divisions (not even talking about the names) and the way they are going to seed going into the playoffs is fucking retarded.

The old way worked quite well. Win your division? OK you get a top 3 seed. Didn't win the division? Ok, you will be seeded accordingly.

Ill give it some time to see how it actually works.

[CAM]

how bout i just tell you who you play the rest of the weeks?

Cam your schedule to end the year is SJS, EDM, DET, TBL

I have STL, NSH, WSH, NYI :S

Thx. You got a tough ending!

[The BBKL Insider]

OTT, VAN, EDM for me

[Shep]

as for the standings, i'm fine with the top 3 teams of each division to be granted a playoff spot no matter what, but having their seed protected on top of that seems retarded.

Why should a team like Montreal that has more pts than any team in the Metropolitan save for the Penguins (and could even top them) receive a worse seed than the Islanders and the Rangers?
I would get reserving the seed of the division winner, but beyond that? really? i guess that's what the NHL uses? but even if that's the case i think taking away that block in determining the playoff seeds (not spots) would help fairness along with enhancing interest in the last few weeks as standings would be more dynamic.

In the West the situation is not much better, as i'll be rated lower than a team like PHX that will finish with 40 less pts than mine. This also screws the top 2 teams in the conference, as they will face a better opponent despite the fact they earned the right to face the 2 worse qualifiers in their conference.
Again, is that how it really works for the NHL? we should still move away from that next season.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/standings.htm?se ... v-stn-conf

Montreal in "7th" yet they have more points than the Flyers and Rangers.

[kyuss]

for that matter, Montreal 5th in the conference despite being in a wild card position
http://www.nhl.com/ice/standings.htm?se ... 4&type=CON

[dave1959]

Nick...you've more losses than Cam...he deserves to be ahead of you.....loser.

lol

[Nick]

I have 1 loss. well until this week ends.

[dave1959]

I meant in the standings.....

[CAM]

I have 2 losses. Shiv and Chuck. Tied Tony and Mike.