2015 Draft Discussion

[Chuck Norris]

Here's another idea off the top of my head:

You can draft any goalie you want but if that goalie isn't drafted into our own system then that systems owner can offer to pay you an equivalent round pick in the following years draft based on what round in the real nhl draft he was taken in.

If the systems owner doesn't want to pay for him within some kind of time frame then the drafter can keep him permanently.

That way systems are kept intact and value isn't lost by the drafting GM.

This I can get behind, but the compensation should be slightly higher since it's a year later. Something like next year's pick + a pick in the following round and maybe more for a 1st round goalie since if a goalie is drafted 8th overall a late 1st the following year wouldn't be fair compensation.

I like that adjustment. Keeps values truly fair. This rule only applies to the draft though. Don't know if we can do much about free agent goalies/waivers/nhl trades but this addresses the biggest source of goalies in the league.

[Tony]

Agree with Chuck.

I really only draft goalies to be able to do a three way type deal when I need to complete my own system.

Seems like some fair solutions as well...

[Chuck Norris]

Another issue with your point Matthew is that if guys do learn in the long run then you'll see our first 2 rounds loaded with goalie picks who aren't destined to be picked till the later rounds. Then you still have the same issue of everyone owning each others system goalies and greedy GMs holding randsom. In fact in the long run I do see this getting worse as more GMs catch on
..

[Tony]

Let's start during the waiver draft/free agency... make that a deadline for voting/CC stuff. I know SJ has a couple guys I need and I KNOW someone's going to be a dickhole.

[Matthew]

Lets just take all strategy out of the league then. Make it simple for those people who admit to not wanting to draft goalies. just because you wont follow supply and demand.

"those gm's draft high risk goalies and are patient with the ones who seem to make it, and i dont want to be patient, so i feel like we should put rules in place for me to be lazy."

This also would remove being able to run 2 backups as your system.



Last, for bruyns, minny only really has 3 capable goaltender pieces: dubnyk, Keumper, Kahkonen. I own both dubnyk and kahkonen. Backstrom is going to be bought out, and the guy with ms has pretty much announced his retirement. There isnt really anything else in the system.

[Matthew]

who cares if a gm is greedy? Be a better drafter and choose the right goaltender. I know I have no chance of getting keumper at this point, but that is that gm's strategy. I will settle for trading assets for another backup. Maybe goalies shouldnt have been worth 25% of the stats if you didnt want goaltenders to be so valuable.

[Bruyns]

Josh has Kuemper, Michalek and Gustafsson. Goalies are voodoo is a pretty common saying since they are so hard to predict. In 4 years time Kuemper could be the Wild starter with Michalek backing him up and Kahkonen might never sniff the NHL. That's why I said systems are split since I don't feel that owning two Wild goalies gives you the right to the system even though I highly doubt we would ever go the route of shuffling around goalies to force teams to own systems.

[Chuck Norris]

who cares if a gm is greedy? Be a better drafter and choose the right goaltender. I know I have no chance of getting keumper at this point, but that is that gm's strategy. I will settle for trading assets for another backup. Maybe goalies shouldnt have been worth 25% of the stats if you didnt want goaltenders to be so valuable.

I've drafted my fair share of goalies over the years but ive always given them up for a fair value offer. Unfortunately many GMs want to rape a deal in the same situation which isn't ok

The present system artificially inflates goalie values. You know that by drafting a goalie you have a 1 in 30 chance he joins your system. You do it cause you know there will be one gm who will need him and you can either force him to pay through the nose or else he doesn't have a starter in a few years. It's strategy yes but it's a dick move as well.

[Fraser]

I'm not as confident as you are that Dubnyk is 100% staying in Minnesota

[Bruyns]

http://www.thefourthperiod.com/news/min150610.html

[Matthew]

It doesnt matter to me which team Dubnyk lands in. I wont be competing for 2/3 years anyways. Either way, I cant stand when people attempt to remove strategy and take away gm creativity.

[Bruyns]

It doesnt matter to me which team Dubnyk lands in. I wont be competing for 2/3 years anyways. Either way, I cant stand when people attempt to remove strategy and take away gm creativity.

You were including Dubnyk as one of 3 pieces in the Wild system when in reality you might only hold one Wild prospect goalie. It just further shows that it's difficult to pin down who owns each team's system.

I don't have a horse in this race and I'm not throwing my support behind either side, but is it really strategy and creativity to say I am not trading you Mackenzie Blackwood unless you trade me a 60 point C or 3 1st rounders? That seems like holding an asset hostage and being greedy.

I also was not going to trade Gibson even before I traded for Andersen so in a way I was holding a single goalie from a system hostage too.

[Chuck Norris]

It doesnt matter to me which team Dubnyk lands in. I wont be competing for 2/3 years anyways. Either way, I cant stand when people attempt to remove strategy and take away gm creativity.

I'm all for strategy Matt, and I do draft goalies with the intent of trading them to get other pieces I like. But I'm fair in my deals when it comes to other system's goalies. Where I draw issue are those GMs (and there are a number of them) that are greedy and turn down good deals. I've had some deals in the past where I've offered overpayment and been shot down and asked for absolutely ludicrous value that no sane person would consider paying.

I'm not saying something WILL get done. I'm not even sure it's possible to implement something that doesnt stifle creativity while promoting balance. It was jsut an idea I've thrown up there to see what other people think and if it's worth at least looking into...

[Matthew]

I dont think mrazek for 1st + poirier was out of line by mike. mrazek is a top 3 goalie prospect imo. where has he asked for a 60 point C?

And saying you were asked for crazy overpayment for a goalie in this league...i am asked for crazy overpayment for every player i inquire about, and usually ask for crazy payment for lots of players people inquire to me about. people are insane in general, not just about goalies.

[Fraser]

What about people who want to build their team through the draft, including goaltending? They see a high profile goaltender or a goalie they really covet in the draft and pick him, but they would be either forced or pressured to give him up because it would compliment another teams goalies well? Seems pretty ludicrous to me. Just because you hold an nHL teams current starter, in my opinion it isn't your right to be entitled to the entire future of that franchise's goaltending as well.

[Fraser]

While I would heavily be against it. The only potential solution I would see to this would be the fantasy football defense route. Where we don't hold assets on goalies anymore, and they just become a team. If your team loses a goalie to FA or retirement, your goalies take a huge hit and theres nothing you can do about it. Draft a high end prospect, that team goalie asset starts looking more promising. I absolutely hate this idea, but I think its the only way to achieve what your looking to achieve.

[Chuck Norris]

While I would heavily be against it. The only potential solution I would see to this would be the fantasy football defense route. Where we don't hold assets on goalies anymore, and they just become a team. If your team loses a goalie to FA or retirement, your goalies take a huge hit and theres nothing you can do about it. Draft a high end prospect, that team goalie asset starts looking more promising. I absolutely hate this idea, but I think its the only way to achieve what your looking to achieve.

Look I'm not even sure I'm on board with the idea myself here. The point was to stimulate discussion and see if any viable idea came forward to even be worth considering.

I always want what's best for the league. All I'm saying is I see an issue - is there a decent solution that betters the league on the whole. If the answer is yes then we look into it. If it's no then the idea dies in this thread.

[Tony]

Put a limit on total goalies in your roster?

[Fraser]

While I would heavily be against it. The only potential solution I would see to this would be the fantasy football defense route. Where we don't hold assets on goalies anymore, and they just become a team. If your team loses a goalie to FA or retirement, your goalies take a huge hit and theres nothing you can do about it. Draft a high end prospect, that team goalie asset starts looking more promising. I absolutely hate this idea, but I think its the only way to achieve what your looking to achieve.

Look I'm not even sure I'm on board with the idea myself here. The point was to stimulate discussion and see if any viable idea came forward to even be worth considering.

I always want what's best for the league. All I'm saying is I see an issue - is there a decent solution that betters the league on the whole. If the answer is yes then we look into it. If it's no then the idea dies in this thread.

For me the root of the problem you are bringing up, is that there is a disproportionality of wealth in this league among the teams at the top and the ones at the bottom, which allows some teams to take on extra side strategies to generate even further wealth, such as drafting goaltenders to turn an eventual large profit on.

What it comes down to for me is you have to make everyone a little more desperate, to the point where taking a long term strategy like that wouldn't seem as favorable. But at the same time I'm not at all for punishing well run teams just becuase they have done well. Putting in measures like reducing the waiver age, or GP limits, would normalize some of this over time. But there is no silver bullet strategy here.

[Matthew]

Put a limit on total goalies in your roster?

While I am against regulation of goalies entirely, if a regulation were to go forth, this could be one that works. While it wouldnt prevent teams with other teams goalies from trying to get large payoffs, it would prevent teams from drafting every goalie, and forcing teams to draft the best goalies only. if every team could only have 8-10 goalies of their 90 players total, a team could only develop so many outside of their own system at a time.

edit: or something, im rambling.