2015 Draft Discussion

[CasperX22]

Put a limit on total goalies in your roster?

While I am against regulation of goalies entirely, if a regulation were to go forth, this could be one that works. While it wouldnt prevent teams with other teams goalies from trying to get large payoffs, it would prevent teams from drafting every goalie, and forcing teams to draft the best goalies only. if every team could only have 8-10 goalies of their 90 players total, a team could only develop so many outside of their own system at a time.

edit: or something, im rambling.

How many people actually own 10 goalies? This is an interesting discussion though. Not sure there is a solution here to make everyone happy, but I think a good portion of the league would likely agree that at the very least there needs to be some tweaks.

[kyuss]

fuck you Arian,

sincerely -Mik

[CasperX22]

fuck you Arian,

sincerely -Mik

Lol?!?!?!

[Tony]

Leggo my Euro

[kyuss]

speaking of the OT:

- I don't understand the obsession of necessarily having complete systems

- good luck regulating this without making it unfair. Right now at least it is auto-regulated by the market.
And as someone wrote before in this thread, just because you hold an NHL team's current starter, it should not be your right to be entitled to the entire future of that franchise's goaltending as well.
GMs who are concerned with others ammassing goalies, why don't they draft goalies themselves to put them into the convenient side of this thing?
it would be funny to see 40 goalies going into the top 2 rounds and be able to draft top 20 skaters in the 3rd as a result. At some point, the market would dictate where the right limit is.


- this argument that GMs need to take what's offered to them for their prospect goalies or it means they are asking for ludicrous prices is frankly pathetic.

You do it cause you know there will be one gm who will need him and you can either force him to pay through the nose or else he doesn't have a starter in a few years

if that goalie is indeed becoming a starter, chances are the high asking price was fair more than ludicrous.
Why should someone owning a future starter be supposed to deal him in deals where he gets paid like he was a depth prospect or a backup for life?
According to former SJ GM for example I was supposed to give him Darling like he was Hutton. Or even swap them.

The holtby saga was a good example of that.
I traded for Holtby soon after joining the league cause I liked his potential as a prospect.
As the time passed by, the next owners of the WSH system kept asking me for Holtby. At first offers were like a 3rd rounder.
Then they became a 2nd rounder. At that point when I kept refusing I started getting insulted (by NJ'Scott and others. Of course in those negotiations I was blamed for holding hostage an hopeless goalie). Then I refused a 1st. OMG that created a shitstorm.

Eventually, yrs after I acquired him, I sold him for Ennis + picks upgrade (3rd to 2nd). He was still WSH 3rd goalie back then. Funny enough I got criticized for the deal by some of the same who blame me of holding G hostage. In insight, I obviously lost that deal badly (even if Ennis was pivotal to land PHI's system, including Bobrovsky, soon after). Now think how badly I would have lost a deal sending Holtby pack for a 2nd rounder like I should have felt obliged to according to all the experts here.


- IF it's deemed something needs to be done on the matter, putting a total limit to the owned Gs certainly seems like the easier way to go.
To please the 'full system' obsession, you might want to make the limitation only pertain 'out of your system' goalies, albeit that would make it a little less simple (some teams have NHL goalies from more than one NHL team... )

[Fraser]

Yea pretty much agreed on all points Mik. Another good example would be my situation right now. Some might say that I'm holding Vasilevski hostage from the TB system, but I don't see it that way at all. Rather I see a future elite level goaltender who will be a crucial part of my team when it is capable of being a real legitimate contender, with the importance of high level goaltending in this league, I see him as one of the, if not the most important piece on my roster. Now should I feel like I'm obligated to let him go to whoever is currently holding the rest of TB system? To that I say hell no. The cost of acquiring elite level goaltending is astronomically high, as we just saw with Price. By being patient I see myself growing into a team with elite level goaltending, through the prospect development route. While Vasi may be on an extreme end of the goalie prospect spectrum, I see it as a very legitimate avenue for re-building/re-tooling teams in this league who want to have a shot at acquiring a potentially high level goaltender who don't have the assets to pay a high level price elsewhere.

[lightupdadarkness]

Keeping a complete system is almost impossible at this point with asking prices and sometimes those pieces aren't really valuable unless they are in your system so I think you just build your own system and if it comes to it pay the price down the road. That's how I see it bc it's just almost impossible to come up with a fair solution here bc either way people are going to lose. Anyways when all those goalies prospects don't pan out anyways you've saved yourself the trouble lol

[Sensfanjosh]

I don't think the issue lies with the elite goalies or goalie prospects but rather the guys who a tier (or 7 ) down. Its irritating when you trade goalies who are likely to increase in value away to help someone out and to not have that same courtesy returned; sure no one can force you to trade goalies but I think long-term such practices would be bad for the league and continue value imbalances. For what its worth I'd be all for owning complete systems (which is me trading demko saros and sandstrom for soderstrom and mcadam )

[The BBKL Insider]

Make sure u have a 1A starter snd a backup from any team. Who cares about the rest.

[Shoalzie]

With the fact we draft ahead of the NHL draft...you can't go into our draft knowing which team drafted the top goalies so you can plan accordingly if you want to "complete the system". When it comes to goalies, I think you'd rather have a dependable #1 from year to year and maybe you go out and find the backup each year if that's a revolving door.

I do find the system approach to be a big headache. You just want to have the two guys at the NHL level and maybe the top AHL goalie in case of injury. You can survive with not having every prospect goalie unless you really want them. Prospect goalies are more affordable than getting the NHL level goalies so I can see the appeal in adding them if you can.

When you draft a goalie, you basically have to understand that goalie won't be at the NHL level for several years. You don't see many young goalies get fast tracked considering how NHL teams are so insistent on signing their established #1 goalies to long term deals. It gives those goalies time to develop. No team paying a goalie $6 million a year is going to rush their goalie prospect...they bring them up when they're ready.

I think you just want to keep your goalie cabinet as full as you can because odds are you'll have an NHL goalie out of the group...you just don't know who and you don't know when.

[dave1959]

The simple solution is don't be a fucking knob and try to make other GMs overpay for a goalie you have that is in their system. Make a fair deal that suits each team.

It's called fairplay. (getting less and less common these days, just like respect)

[The BBKL Insider]

The simple solution is don't be a fucking knob and try to make other GMs overpay for a goalie you have that is in their system. Make a fair deal that suits each team.

It's called fairplay. (getting less and less common these days, just like respect)

none of this happens anymore sadly

i just give up on goalie prospects. They aren't worth the energy trying to land them.

[dave1959]

#123 traded to Mik

he is posting it.

[Chuck Norris]

The simple solution is don't be a fucking knob and try to make other GMs overpay for a goalie you have that is in their system. Make a fair deal that suits each team.

It's called fairplay. (getting less and less common these days, just like respect)

In the end; the point of my point was exactly this....and like you said it's getting harder and harder to find.

[foofnik]

Since my name has been brought up in here I'll chime in.

Call me an asshole but I have ended talks involving a goalie almost instantly with everyone who has inquired thus far. Mrazek has been the main target but Kuemper and Masons names have come up as well, and I have told everyone I'm not moving them right now. I'm in no rush to shake up my roster right now, especially in net. I've had teams loaded with goalies and I've had teams with 0. I know the value in owning viable goalies.

The simple point has already been mentioned, we do our draft before the real one and no one is a magician that can tell where every goalie prospect will be drafted. Before PBHL I had never heard of owning an entire system. What happens when a goalie switches teams in free agency? Or an unknown steals the starting job? This league is has been going on for too long to change the system without screwing a majority of the league. If you want goalies, draft them. Goalie specs are a crapshoot, why punish the GM's taking the risks on drafting them.

Some guys will charge an arm and a leg for a player, that's pretty standard for any position not just goalies. I charge more for some of my pieces and charge less for others. I don't give anything away free (usually) and I don't expect anyone to just be handed to me either. It's give and take. If you want a piece, pay for it.

[Matthew]

God Damn it, Foofnik, give me Keumper for a 4th, and show me the respect I deserve. It's just fair, afterall!

[The BBKL Insider]

Since my name has been brought up in here I'll chime in.

Call me an asshole but I have ended talks involving a goalie almost instantly with everyone who has inquired thus far. Mrazek has been the main target but Kuemper and Masons names have come up as well, and I have told everyone I'm not moving them right now. I'm in no rush to shake up my roster right now, especially in net. I've had teams loaded with goalies and I've had teams with 0. I know the value in owning viable goalies.

The simple point has already been mentioned, we do our draft before the real one and no one is a magician that can tell where every goalie prospect will be drafted. Before PBHL I had never heard of owning an entire system. What happens when a goalie switches teams in free agency? Or an unknown steals the starting job? This league is has been going on for too long to change the system without screwing a majority of the league. If you want goalies, draft them. Goalie specs are a crapshoot, why punish the GM's taking the risks on drafting them.

Some guys will charge an arm and a leg for a player, that's pretty standard for any position not just goalies. I charge more for some of my pieces and charge less for others. I don't give anything away free (usually) and I don't expect anyone to just be handed to me either. It's give and take. If you want a piece, pay for it.

why would you trade Mrazek? i wouldn't even consider it. He's the future in Det.

[dave1959]

....there's that Lee guy..........holding up the draft again!!!!

LOL

[Sensfanjosh]

Since my name has been brought up in here I'll chime in.

Call me an asshole but I have ended talks involving a goalie almost instantly with everyone who has inquired thus far. Mrazek has been the main target but Kuemper and Masons names have come up as well, and I have told everyone I'm not moving them right now. I'm in no rush to shake up my roster right now, especially in net. I've had teams loaded with goalies and I've had teams with 0. I know the value in owning viable goalies.

The simple point has already been mentioned, we do our draft before the real one and no one is a magician that can tell where every goalie prospect will be drafted. Before PBHL I had never heard of owning an entire system. What happens when a goalie switches teams in free agency? Or an unknown steals the starting job? This league is has been going on for too long to change the system without screwing a majority of the league. If you want goalies, draft them. Goalie specs are a crapshoot, why punish the GM's taking the risks on drafting them.

Some guys will charge an arm and a leg for a player, that's pretty standard for any position not just goalies. I charge more for some of my pieces and charge less for others. I don't give anything away free (usually) and I don't expect anyone to just be handed to me either. It's give and take. If you want a piece, pay for it.

This is all well and good, however again there is a difference between willing to pay for a prospect and being willing to be taken advantag of. This is not a shot at Darkness as we haven't talked Soderstrom, but some have asked me for Ehlers for Soderstrom and Demko+ for Soderstrom when its pretty objectively clear Soderstrom is worth less. I have no issue paying for Soder in order to complete my system, but trying to take a huge profit like Demko or Ehlers over Soder to me seems a bit extreme, and if the league was the follow suit I believe we will be in for long-term problems with goalie value/ the draft and trading in general.

[kimmer]

Oh we talkin about goalies?