Opening a new can of worms: Jacob Trouba

[Sensfanjosh]

Agree with Shiv and Matt here, though understand Fraser's side too, I know when rebuilding my team the hardest thing is giving up your good productive talent to continue the building process, though if you fail to move said assets before they peak it can really set you back too

[Robin Hood]

Alright summer 2017 it is. Can't. Wait.

Pretty sure mid-season this year I'll land Gio+ for Trouba as the Free Agency price tag of Gio heats up.

[Fraser]

I guess a big point of disagreement Is that some of you think Giordano is going to fall from his level of production anytime soon. And maybe by playing the general age game that would be the case with most players. But when I look at the quality of athlete and level of drive that Giordano has I can't agree with that notion. I actually can't think of a high level player in his age bracket that I would project greater longevity than Gio.

[Matthew]

Not everyone is driven by cap prices. like fraser said, i got a bundle for a 10.5 million dollar one dimensional winger.

[Robin Hood]

I guess a big point of disagreement Is that some of you think Giordano is going to fall from his level of production anytime soon.

Incorrect. The point of disagreement is this:

1) Yes, Gio is productive and awesome.
2) But as his cap hit and age increase, getting a player of Trouba's calibre will become much harder
3) Trouba is a fantastic young d-man to own who already has better periphs than Gio and about 25 points lesser offence.
4) But there is more than enough upside to compensate for those 25 points. Plus Gio's age and cap make the gap even smaller.

No one is arguing that Gio is not a great player

[Fraser]

I guess a big point of disagreement Is that some of you think Giordano is going to fall from his level of production anytime soon.

Incorrect. The point of disagreement is this:

1) Yes, Gio is productive and awesome.
2) But as his cap hit and age increase, getting a player of Trouba's calibre will become much harder
3) Trouba is a fantastic young d-man to own who already has better periphs than Gio and about 25 points lesser offence.
4) But there is more than enough upside to compensate for those 25 points. Plus Gio's age and cap make the gap even smaller.

No one is arguing that Gio is not a great player

I have a lot of time on my hands right now. So I went through this and there is a much bigger gap than your letting on. Extrapolating their 61 and 65 game season statistics to an 82 gamer.

Points - 28 VS. 65 - Gio by 37 points
Pims - 58 VS. 50 - Trouba by 8 PIMS
SOG - 167 VS. 211 - Gio by 44 SOG
STP - 8 VS. 20 - Gio by 12 STP
Hit - 122 VS. 80 - Trouba by 42 hits
Block - 151 VS. 172 - Gio by 21 blocks
SHTOI - 275 VS. 175 - Trouba by 100 mins

So a projected 37 point difference last year, significantly more than 25. Without being as superior in periphs as you seem to be letting on. Especially when you consider the insane amount of injuries that Winnepeg had on their backend in early 2015. Trouba's SHTOI was surely inflated by that, but a strong contributor in that category no doubt.

[Robin Hood]

I guess a big point of disagreement Is that some of you think Giordano is going to fall from his level of production anytime soon.

Incorrect. The point of disagreement is this:

1) Yes, Gio is productive and awesome.
2) But as his cap hit and age increase, getting a player of Trouba's calibre will become much harder
3) Trouba is a fantastic young d-man to own who already has better periphs than Gio and about 25 points lesser offence.
4) But there is more than enough upside to compensate for those 25 points. Plus Gio's age and cap make the gap even smaller.

No one is arguing that Gio is not a great player

I have a lot of time on my hands right now. So I went through this and there is a much bigger gap than your letting on. Extrapolating their 61 and 65 game season statistics to an 82 gamer.

Points - 28 VS. 65 - Gio by 37 points
Pims - 58 VS. 50 - Trouba by 8 PIMS
SOG - 167 VS. 211 - Gio by 44 SOG
STP - 8 VS. 20 - Gio by 12 STP
Hit - 122 VS. 80 - Trouba by 42 hits
Block - 151 VS. 172 - Gio by 21 blocks
SHTOI - 275 VS. 175 - Trouba by 100 mins

So a projected 37 point difference last year, significantly more than 25. Without being as superior in periphs as you seem to be letting on. Especially when you consider the insane amount of injuries that Winnepeg had on their backend in early 2015. Trouba's SHTOI was surely inflated by that, but a strong contributor in that category no doubt.

1) How many times in NHL history has a d-man had 65 points +? Odds are Giordano regresses
2) Your stats are objective, while your breakdown is subjective. 100 SHTOI is no joke. It's another roster d-man...
3) You''re supposed to "lose stats" when moving Gio. He will only be wanted by a competitor. They will give you upside and potential for stats today.
4) Do this analysis. Take the same stats and divide them by cap spent. How many stats do you get per $1M in cap?
5) Your analysis excludes the most important part of any good forecast: future expectation. I know Trouba will get better. I know Gio will get paid 7-8M.

[Fraser]

I guess a big point of disagreement Is that some of you think Giordano is going to fall from his level of production anytime soon.

Incorrect. The point of disagreement is this:

1) Yes, Gio is productive and awesome.
2) But as his cap hit and age increase, getting a player of Trouba's calibre will become much harder
3) Trouba is a fantastic young d-man to own who already has better periphs than Gio and about 25 points lesser offence.
4) But there is more than enough upside to compensate for those 25 points. Plus Gio's age and cap make the gap even smaller.

No one is arguing that Gio is not a great player

I have a lot of time on my hands right now. So I went through this and there is a much bigger gap than your letting on. Extrapolating their 61 and 65 game season statistics to an 82 gamer.

Points - 28 VS. 65 - Gio by 37 points
Pims - 58 VS. 50 - Trouba by 8 PIMS
SOG - 167 VS. 211 - Gio by 44 SOG
STP - 8 VS. 20 - Gio by 12 STP
Hit - 122 VS. 80 - Trouba by 42 hits
Block - 151 VS. 172 - Gio by 21 blocks
SHTOI - 275 VS. 175 - Trouba by 100 mins

So a projected 37 point difference last year, significantly more than 25. Without being as superior in periphs as you seem to be letting on. Especially when you consider the insane amount of injuries that Winnepeg had on their backend in early 2015. Trouba's SHTOI was surely inflated by that, but a strong contributor in that category no doubt.

1) How many times in NHL history has a d-man had 65 points +? Odds are Giordano regresses
2) Your stats are objective, while your breakdown is subjective. 100 SHTOI is no joke. It's another roster d-man...
3) You''re supposed to "lose stats" when moving Gio. He will only be wanted by a competitor. They will give you upside and potential for stats today.
4) Do this analysis. Take the same stats and divide them by cap spent. How many stats do you get per $1M in cap?
5) Your analysis excludes the most important part of any good forecast: future expectation. I know Trouba will get better. I know Gio will get paid 7-8M.

Despite all of the analysis we like to put on players here, at the end of the day Giordano is an elite level defenseman and Trouba is not. Trouba is young, Trouba is solid, Trouba has potential to get better than where he is now. But Giordano is the class of the league in terms of the top defensemen on their current contracts. Just because he is elite, is showing no signs of slowing down, and will eventually get a contract reflective of his elite level production doesn't make his value plummit. By that logic almost all elite level players in this league should have have poor value. All this emphasizes is the absolutely ridiculously high value that Giordano currently has on his contract to a team that want to win this year, sure he may not be as absolutely ridiculously valuable when he becomes paid what he's worth down the line. But for now he is an absolute gem.

[kimmer]

Lol sigh

Frazer

[The BBKL Insider]

Trouba
justin wiliams
nick biono

for

gio
hartnell



post it up fellas.

#fair
#everyonewins

[Fraser]

Would be a thinker Steve. We see more eye to eye on value here.

[CAM]

I liked your rebuttal Shiv. Valid questions.

[kyuss]

Brodin

[kimmer]

Williams is useless
And brodin is overrated AND useless in h2h lolz


Hey steve
Shall we post here what brodin went for in Armchair? Lol

[Fraser]

Just post it Kim. Don't ask your dad for permission.

[Fraser]

Also this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=644jpjSgMs8[/youtube]

[kimmer]

I can't
It involves a gm who is in bbkl as well. So I don't wanna slander him, altho I actually think nothing different of the said gm for getting brodin that way. Hes my homie. But still. Ykno

[Robin Hood]

Summary of thread: Fraser is stubborn.

I've seen this movie before. Young BBKL gm holds out for value on an older player that is performing.

Giordano will eventually be moved for less value than Trouba. Let's wait till the end of this movie

[kimmer]

And inb4 kyuss: brodin would be the best skater for bbkl Carolina

[Fraser]

Shiv I may be a new GM to you. But ive been around the block here more than a couple times while you were gone. I know what I'm doing here and I've been proven capable of running this team. My roster I was handed compared to the one I have now speaks for itself.