League Disparity

[Florida Chris]

I was in a league with the similar issues a few yrs back. We had a very good completive group of guys. In the beginning there were a handful of elite gms who really knew there shit, and a huge amount of middle guys, and then there was some clueless guys. After 5 or so yrs, the smartness of the entire group got very close, and we introduced things like mentorship, so new gms could catch up, and not get ripped, and some other things. The smartness of the Gms got a lot better as a group, but the difference between the top and bottom teams really never got much better, and things really started to fiz out, and we ended up deciding as we had a great group of guys, to start a new league from scratch, and everybody thought it would be great. It was really fun and super active for about 1 yr, but it happened quickly were we ended up in the same situation as we were in, and the leagued folded.



Our league is a bit different, and I don't see this folding, which is good. In a league that has been around as long as ours, we are going to see lots of change. I am not against tinkering around with a few things, but lets have a little patients, as I think we actually at this time have a great group of guys, and it takes time to get better. The biggest problem with this league since the beginning is new gms came in, and got schooled by all the vets. This has pretty much stopped in the last yr or so, and I think the league is much better. There are a bunch of teams a ton better today then they were a few yrs ago, so progress is being made, but no matter how great the gms there will always be a #1 team and a #30 team.

[kimmer]

but no matter how great the gms there will always be a #1 team and a #30 team.

best point of this thread

[Fraser]

Appreciate the input Chris. And I think you guys are spot on when saying that things have been trending in a better direction and with time it will only improve. But for me when looking at this single year in isolation, and sorry to single a team out here but when I see players like Kuznetsov, Panarin and Klingberg all sitting in the minors, it says to me that we have a problem.

Sure with those specific players they are cap casualties. But they are high level players who aren't a part of our leagues weekly match ups. Its unrealistic when comparing it to the NHL and I think it takes away from our league to have players like that not a part of our main league. I think creating a max GP in the minors would light a fire under GM's to make moves to accomodate their young stars within their lineup, and allow more efficient shuffling of lesser talent around the league to teams that could use it. At the end of the day it just takes away a bit of leverage that these really wealthy teams hold to help make more productive teams league wide.

[Shoalzie]

I'm not for punishing teams that draft and trade well and grow strong organizational depth. In a 30-team league, you're going to have a sizeable gap in talent between the best team and the worst team and we're also going to have a diverse range of team-building philosophies. Some are better at this than others...such as life.

The issue we have is the fact that you are at no risk of losing players of value to a free agent system and it's harder to acquire established talent without a free agent element. I get that we're not in any position to implement something like that but the only strategic element of roster management is with the salary cap.

[bills09]

Appreciate the input Chris. And I think you guys are spot on when saying that things have been trending in a better direction and with time it will only improve. But for me when looking at this single year in isolation, and sorry to single a team out here but when I see players like Kuznetsov, Panarin and Klingberg all sitting in the minors, it says to me that we have a problem.

Sure with those specific players they are cap casualties. But they are high level players who aren't a part of our leagues weekly match ups. Its unrealistic when comparing it to the NHL and I think it takes away from our league to have players like that not a part of our main league. I think creating a max GP in the minors would light a fire under GM's to make moves to accomodate their young stars within their lineup, and allow more efficient shuffling of lesser talent around the league to teams that could use it. At the end of the day it just takes away a bit of leverage that these really wealthy teams hold to help make more productive teams league wide.

Mik drafted and developed those players and next season and this season will be forced to make a lot of trades to get under the cap as those high end guys will no longer be waiver exempt

[Fraser]

The future of fantasy with free agency wouldn't that be something. Some sort of simulation taking into account team strength, role, $ offering. Would be pretty insane.

[bills09]

We would see some insane inflated contracts the first year

[thom54]

I bid 15 million for McDavid

[Lee]

everyone makes it to free agency and everyone is bid on. no max salary but yes to a salary cap

[Fraser]

What about year length? One team offering 4yrs at 7Mil another at 5yrs at 6.75. Which does the player take?

[kyuss]

Also I should clarify that what I'm suggesting doesn't necessarily hurt the wealth of these teams on top. Rather I just think from a competitive standpoint in the league we shouldn't have a structure that allows a large amount of productive players to sit in the minors contributing nothing

Appreciate the input Chris. And I think you guys are spot on when saying that things have been trending in a better direction and with time it will only improve. But for me when looking at this single year in isolation, and sorry to single a team out here but when I see players like Kuznetsov, Panarin and Klingberg all sitting in the minors, it says to me that we have a problem.

there will be more to add, but just wanted to start pointing out a couple of things.

1. What's happening to me this season is no different than what happened in Detroit in real life (nhl) over the past years. You think Nyquist would have not been more productive than Cleary & c when he was dominating the AHL? yet they decided to keep him down for yrs, cause otherwise they had to throw away veterans they didn't want to lose.
In our NHL representation with BBKL, keeping Klingberg/Panarin down is no different, the fact he is producing in the NHL so he should be up is like saying an NHL team should be forced to keep up a player who is dominating the AHL.
The fact in terms of NHL games played by our players we have to witness the NHL GMs decisions instead of making our own decisions (which for example affects how long a player remains waiver exempt) is problematic enough without forcing BBKL GMs to keep players up just because NHL GMs decides so, even when they still are waiver exempts by BBKL (restricted) standards.

2. A good reason why Kuz, Panarin & Klingberg are in the minors is other GMs with cap room don't feel like paying decent value for veterans. If Selanne played till 44, the way Datsyuk plays the game it is hard to imagine he stops being effective before 40, yet he is treated like he was someone who can't play hockey anymore and ready to retire.
Heck, even Plekanec didn't have weak teams with cap room interested, and in fact ended up to another contender for cheap..
so this is a case of hoarding resulting from others' behaviour more than willingness: obviously I'd rather dress those 3 players than not.

[thom54]

What about year length? One team offering 4yrs at 7Mil another at 5yrs at 6.75. Which does the player take?

well in your case, the 5 year deal. But your point is made, in this purely fantasy scenario (We're never doing this), I imagine that there would be a ... 3year? contract term for every deal

[Lee]

What about year length? One team offering 4yrs at 7Mil another at 5yrs at 6.75. Which does the player take?

Most money offered.

[bills09]

Also I should clarify that what I'm suggesting doesn't necessarily hurt the wealth of these teams on top. Rather I just think from a competitive standpoint in the league we shouldn't have a structure that allows a large amount of productive players to sit in the minors contributing nothing

Appreciate the input Chris. And I think you guys are spot on when saying that things have been trending in a better direction and with time it will only improve. But for me when looking at this single year in isolation, and sorry to single a team out here but when I see players like Kuznetsov, Panarin and Klingberg all sitting in the minors, it says to me that we have a problem.

there will be more to add, but just wanted to start pointing out a couple of things.

1. What's happening to me this season is no different than what happened in Detroit in real life (nhl) over the past years. You think Nyquist would have not been more productive than Cleary & c when he was dominating the AHL? yet they decided to keep him down for yrs, cause otherwise they had to throw away veterans they didn't want to lose.
In our NHL representation with BBKL, keeping Klingberg/Panarin down is no different, the fact he is producing in the NHL so he should be up is like saying an NHL team should be forced to keep up a player who is dominating the AHL.
The fact in terms of NHL games played by our players we have to witness the NHL GMs decisions instead of making our own decisions (which for example affects how long a player remains waiver exempt) is problematic enough without forcing BBKL GMs to keep players up just because NHL GMs decides so, even when they still are waiver exempts by BBKL (restricted) standards.

2. A good reason why Kuz, Panarin & Klingberg are in the minors is other GMs with cap room don't feel like paying decent value for veterans. If Selanne played till 44, the way Datsyuk plays the game it is hard to imagine he stops being effective before 40, yet he is treated like he was someone who can't play hockey anymore and ready to retire.
Heck, even Plekanec didn't have weak teams with cap room interested, and in fact ended up to another contender for cheap..
so this is a case of hoarding resulting from others' behaviour more than willingness: obviously I'd rather dress those 3 players than not.

Are you saying Klingberg should not be in the NHL
Guys gonna win the Norris as a bbkl Mikwaukee Admiral

[Arian The Insider]

Sure, the quality of GMs may be closer now before but let's be honest a lot of stupid deals are still being made. It will take a few years to see more parity at least.

[Shep]

It's a joke that guys like Kuznetsov, Klingberg and Panarin are in the minors, regardless of the reason. That alone is enough for me to support some sort of change.

I agree that people that build depth, draft, and have an insanely good team with an incredible prospect system need to be rewarded, but stuff like this where 2 of the top 10 players in points in the NHL are sitting in the minors, is an absolute joke.

[Shoalzie]

I don't have players at the same talent level of what Mik has but I've got J.T. Brown, Quinton Howden and Brandon Davidson that I've had in and out of the minors at different stages of the season because I have more productive veteran options to play when I'm fully healthy. It's supposed to be a luxury to have in-house injury replacements or lineup options.

While I'm jealous of Mik's riches, I wouldn't punish him because he's got too much waiver exempt talent. If changing the waiver rules is necessary...then do it. For now, what's he supposed to do? He's got to do what's best for his team with the players he has.

[dave1959]

I think GP maximums for players in the minors is the right idea.

Ya, i'm ok with rules to prevent minor hoarding. I'm not okay in giving players away for free

I agree with this.

[Sensfanjosh]

The biggest issue is that we, unlike NHL teams do not control our own player's destinies and not sure there is any way we can actually model this, if I have a guy who gets sent down in real life, I better hope I have a BBKL replacement, whereas an NHL team knows they have a replacement because they can call it up.

I have no problem with Mik having an awesome minor league system, and the fact that guys are unable to properly evaluate prospects in the draft, or in their own systems isn't something we can police, just as we can't really police bad GMing in general. Make use of mid-late draft picks, acquire depth and prosper after a few years, its not hard if you put some effort and patience into it.

[dave1959]

What about year length? One team offering 4yrs at 7Mil another at 5yrs at 6.75. Which does the player take?

add the numbers together...highest wins

in this case 4+7=11 5+6.75=11.75

11.75 wins