Trade: DET-NSH

[Arian The Insider]

to be honest, there are no quick fixes to this league.. unless you trades everyday and WINS 90% of the trades like shiv did.. otherwise.. best way is through getting top draft picks and have a good pool of prospects..
i totally understand no one wants to be in the basement.. so i do like scott trying to win and make trades.. but the longer you wait to properly rebuild (kimmer.....).. the longer it will stay there.. that's my opinion..
it is also important to note that i definitely do not think one or two star players would help.. a strong team MUST have lots of depth.. i doubt there is 1 star player who can produce 2 players stats.. that's also why Tony's team has been great success with lots of role players who r good bbkl players.. my team looks strong with star power but i actually have lots of depth in the whole lineup too...

and to be honest, im not a big fan of johnson.. johnson will also be getting pay like 6mil per.. so i think it's not that bad next year..but i just think he doesn't have to surrender the 1st to go along with the deal

Spot on, IMO.

[Shoalzie]

Isn't MDZ a healthy scratch tonight?

Sure is. Why MacDonald is playing over MDZ? Well, wish I could give a good reason for that, but one does not exist.

Hakstol is a weirdo. Del Zotto had the hot start after returning from injury and then sits 3 games in a row. Now, he's still being productive and sits again...that's a goofy choice.

[Shoalzie]

to be honest, there are no quick fixes to this league.. unless you trades everyday and WINS 90% of the trades like shiv did.. otherwise.. best way is through getting top draft picks and have a good pool of prospects..
i totally understand no one wants to be in the basement.. so i do like scott trying to win and make trades.. but the longer you wait to properly rebuild (kimmer.....).. the longer it will stay there.. that's my opinion..
it is also important to note that i definitely do not think one or two star players would help.. a strong team MUST have lots of depth.. i doubt there is 1 star player who can produce 2 players stats.. that's also why Tony's team has been great success with lots of role players who r good bbkl players.. my team looks strong with star power but i actually have lots of depth in the whole lineup too...

and to be honest, im not a big fan of johnson.. johnson will also be getting pay like 6mil per.. so i think it's not that bad next year..but i just think he doesn't have to surrender the 1st to go along with the deal

Spot on, IMO.

I don't hate his assessment at all. I'm not anywhere near as good as I'd like to be...I'm hoping to get there gradually. I'm trying to pick my spots where I can make some improvement.

As I said before, Mik and I were talking about Tyler Johnson for weeks. At first, I was probably looking at getting a downgrade at center and acquiring some young players and futures but I asked for too much and it stalled out. Since Mik was so interested in moving Malkin...and I need more legit players...I thought I'd give it a go.

Believe or not, I'm not completely giving up on collecting picks and prospects. Out of all the trades I've made...I've basically thumbed my nose at the 2018 draft but I've still got quite a few picks in 2017. No 1st rounder of course. Plus, I've hung onto my top prospects. Say what you about my prospect pool but I feel pretty confident in my drafting ability considering that I'm not draft high in the 1st round. Several guys I've picked and later traded have gone on to contribute.

[kyuss]

Isn't MDZ a healthy scratch tonight?

Sure is. Why MacDonald is playing over MDZ? Well, wish I could give a good reason for that, but one does not exist.

it's not like I've been watching full games of the Flyers this season.. but a reason could lie in the fact MDZ is not anywhere as good a real hockey player as a BBKLer (and to be a good BBKLer he needs to play... in the NHL)

[kyuss]

I think the issue is you traded 1sts in the past with the opposite justification of adding depth to your team in order to get stronger, and now you're adding single pieces that are older and already signed to huge contracts.

actually, along with the best player he added two more fairly young NHLers here.

You guys act like that 1st of his is a top 3 pick like in the past. DET with the team it had till now is already 6th last and doing really well this week.

A top 3 pick is completely different than a top 7-10. Would like to know the % of good NHLers per pick coming out of those ranges.
If the pick is going to be in that range as it seems likely you would still really think this is such a bad deal for Detroit?

He got by far the best player in the deal. He got 2 growing NHL defenseman (currently on cheap contracts). T.Johnson's value will go down as soon as he signs his new contract, won't be anywhere as good as the current one. The rest he gave up is well delayed in the future, if it ever comes to fruition:
no one knows what will happen with Nichushkin, and in case he comes back at some point there are no guarantees he's going to be better than in his first NHL attempt. Whatever contribution the two 2018 picks may bring is very probably multiple years away.

I read it was a risky deal for DET. The risk basically is the pick winning the lottey and becoming top 3.

Now, how about looking at the other side of the coin too?
- he keeps Nichushkin for years and barely anything comes out of him
- he keeps his 2018 picks and doesn't hit with the players he selects (which in 7-10 and 37-40 range is not an unrealistic scenario)
- he holds on TJ longer and he goes down to a season ending injury before he sells him at his current contract..

If Nichushkin and those 2 picks don't become something good (and if it happens it will take years) he totally destroys the deal getting Malkin, Folin, Wiercioch (+ 4th an year earlier) for T.Johnson.
So how about this risk?
Somehow no one seems to take it into consideration... it's a legit concern worrying about that 1st, but it's not like keeping that pick and those other futures instead of making this deal would have been a safe decision...

[KapG]

Wish you'd keep your firsts for a few years

Oh well

[CasperX22]

Isn't MDZ a healthy scratch tonight?

Sure is. Why MacDonald is playing over MDZ? Well, wish I could give a good reason for that, but one does not exist.

it's not like I've been watching full games of the Flyers this season.. but a reason could lie in the fact MDZ is not anywhere as good a real hockey player as a BBKLer (and to be a good BBKLer he needs to play... in the NHL)

In actuality, outside of Provorov he has been the Flyers best all around defender. He had a couple of brutal games after coming off of injury while the Flyers were playing poorly and subsequently got benched. Gostisbehere was benched after his worst game of the season. Manning had a couple of brutal games and earned a night in the press box after that too. All of this is all fine and we'll if he didn't seem to have some religious devotion to playing MacDonald who is brutal every single night and would even be arguably their worst defender in Lehigh. I love Hakstol as a coach, but he has little quirks like this that are truly puzzling.

[Shoalzie]

Just out of curiosity...have we ever seen a team in this league save their pick every year over a period of time and become a decent team? So many harp on that strategy but does it even work? It's far different to build a fantasy team than a real NHL team.

Can you actually win with just drafting or is it a given you have to trade the pick or the player you draft?

[CasperX22]

Just out of curiosity...have we ever seen a team in this league save their pick every year over a period of time and become a decent team? So many harp on that strategy but does it even work? It's far different to build a fantasy team than a real NHL team.

Well, for that to happen somebody would actually have to do it rather than allowing Mik and Mike to collect everyone's 1sts.

[Sensfanjosh]

I've had 1st rounders every year but my last or last two years and only moved them after I'd already built a deep enough team that gp etc was no longer an issue and I had a deep prospect pool

[Shoalzie]

I'll do a little study of teams and how they use their 1st round pick (primarily in the lottery range). I'm not a huge fan of trading a 1st round pick well before the draft but I've done it a few times...to varying success. I've also kept my pick but later traded the player.

It's a safe approach to do nothing and just make picks...and hope it works out eventually. I think you have to do some maneuvering along the way because you can't build a roster one player at a time each year. Who here has that kind of patience and are we going to do this league long enough that we can see a team completely build into a winner from the ground up?

Mik might be the closest thing to a team that is winning with his own draft picks (not primarily 1st rounders either). A lot of his talent is his own "homegrown" players. I'm surprised he's kept as many guys as he has but he's done well through the draft. Doesn't hurt to have a lot of picks and to have the patience to let guys develop and not move them.

[kyuss]

well I did end up moving some of them without waiting enough, F.Andersen, Jokipakka, Malgin among others..

I don't count Werenski in that group cause he was the only way to get Laine.

[Handsome&FairMike]

Well I'd say all the top teams have either drafted well, or accrued picks in seeing the value of 1sr rounders. Arian may be the first team to truly build through the draft without picking up studs of the prior days of raping seen by mike, steve, mik, tony, and cam. Maybe matt As well but Buffalo was already a studly team when I joined.

[hong57]

Just out of curiosity...have we ever seen a team in this league save their pick every year over a period of time and become a decent team? So many harp on that strategy but does it even work? It's far different to build a fantasy team than a real NHL team.

Can you actually win with just drafting or is it a given you have to trade the pick or the player you draft?

These players are on my current active roster, most have significant contribution to my team and I draft them myself:-

Ristolainen
Toffoli
Lindholm
Matheson
Sissons

These players are on my current active roster, they have significant contribution to my team and I traded for them before they have their first full NHL season or before playing an NHL game:-

Stepan
Faulk
Stone
Morrissey
Ferland


So I would say my team is built through young players and drafts.. I draft every year almost (2 years I didn't draft because I am busy before summer and didn't have time to study the prospects)... otherwise.. my team is basically built through draft and young players... I would not say I'm especially good at scouting but when you do have enough picks and they are high picks, the chances they fail is way smaller... I do get lucky with some picks though

Scott, I do like you and how you try to win, and I have no problem with this trade at all except I think you may be able to keep your first (and its around 7 to 10th so it's not THAT bad).. I am jus saying the way i'd do it.. it will succeed in this league like in the real nhl because we have cap set on the teams.. almost all young players are cheaper and even their first contract after their entry deal they are cheaper and easier to keep them (e.g. toffoli and stone are 3mil only.. faulk 4 mil lindholm 2mil).. after their 2nd contract it will get expensive even production is only a bit better (e.g. stepan 6.5mil. his previous contract is 3 mil around) and they are harder to keep... but their productions are similar...

that's why you have to balance it out and that's why I am very certain building through drafting and young players have high chance to succeed in this league.. not like I won anything but I'm sure I have a chance to win and it has made my team stay competitive ever since I started my rebuild (took 2.5 years) and never missed the playoffs again

[KapG]

Well I'd say all the top teams have either drafted well, or accrued picks in seeing the value of 1sr rounders. Arian may be the first team to truly build through the draft without picking up studs of the prior days of raping seen by mike, steve, mik, tony, and cam. Maybe matt As well but Buffalo was already a studly team when I joined.

Matt made lots of moves but the GM before him made it nearly impossible to fail with all the high picks and blue chip prospects he accumulated.

Once again, Matt had to make the moves, but it was set up for him perfectly for him

[kyuss]

Well I'd say all the top teams have either drafted well, or accrued picks in seeing the value of 1sr rounders. Arian may be the first team to truly build through the draft without picking up studs of the prior days of raping seen by mike, steve, mik, tony, and cam.

I don't belong to that category (probably Tony doesn't either).

I joined after the 1st season, once most of the raping of the worst GMs already happened, and didn't have any friend in the league to rely on (nor I built that kind of thing moving on)

The biggest gains I have made via trades happened with deals where I was bashed the moment I did them (the Malkin deal, the Kuznetsov deal) or where they got mixed reviews or no reviews at all (like when getting Klingberg, or Ekholm for Lisin from Anton). And were made with GMs that were not considered at risk of getting raped (Anton, Kareem with the Josi deal, Nick with the Vatanen deal, Mike with the Nyquist deal, Shiv with the Malkin deal).

[CAM]

Lol, i was a rapist? I dont think so. I traded Brad Marchand + 2nd for Stefan Elliot to FRANK!!!! The one and only trade i made that stands out as rape in hindsight was Ryan Callahan for Brandon Bochenski some other guy and a pick. Scott Smith was the master....

[kimmer]

Nowadays hong types longer and more posts than any of us do lol

[Handsome&FairMike]

Haha sorry for misnomering the non-rapists. I just made some assumptions since your teams were superior when I joined and I figured there must have been some one-sided deals at some point.

[CasperX22]

well I did end up moving some of them without waiting enough, F.Andersen, Jokipakka, Malgin among others..

I don't count Werenski in that group cause he was the only way to get Laine.

Malgin does look pretty studly on my roster doesn't he?