2018 Draft Discussion

[KapG]

What is all this adjusted points blah blah blah nonsense? Is this new?
GP was missed! Rules state if you miss GP the pick is moved back.

[kyuss]

What is all this adjusted points blah blah blah nonsense? Is this new?

no

[KapG]

Well, bottom line is Chicago pick doesn’t get moved back even though the team missed GP. Sharks luck out that that’s the case and is now sitting pretty at first overall prelottery.

Rangers pick as a result now stays in 3rd prelottery. Who loses out in this entire situation? Only me. Not only for the entry draft but also the waiver draft.

Womp womp womp

[Handsome&FairMike]

How did you lose the pick again Kyle?

[KapG]

How did you lose the pick again Kyle?

What do you mean?

I own my 2018 first

2017 I lost because I had to pay up for a bet I lost. Fucking thing just happened to win the lottery lmao

[KapG]

At worst I feel I should have the same odds as the Chicago pick.


Will check back in later to see where this discussion has gone lol

[kyuss]

Well, bottom line is Chicago pick doesn’t get moved back even though the team missed GP. Sharks luck out that that’s the case and is now sitting pretty at first overall prelottery.

Rangers pick as a result now stays in 3rd prelottery. Who loses out in this entire situation? Only me. Not only for the entry draft but also the waiver draft.

Womp womp womp

I have to say there seems to be some excess of self-pity going on here.
If that's the rule and that's where your team would have probably still finished with CHI meeting GP minimum, what would be so wrong?
Especially when we are talking about percentages about a lottery. It might very well happen that is #4 in the pre-lottery order to win the lottery..
much more serious offense brought to your team by wasting a 1st rounder (eventual lottery winner) on a bet... I think/hope we did manage to prohibit betting high picks after that crap.

That being said, I spent some time to go back and look at the most recent ruling on this matter and... it seems I did remember wrong at least part of it.

It's about 2 years old:
http://bbkl.ca/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1206 ... 00#p242728

the key thing there is I don't see the "will be moved back before the lottery occurs at least one spot if GP minimums are not reached" being depending on the owner of the pick. It seems the fact the pick is not owned anymore by the offending GM only affects the post lottery scenario: that pick can still move up if winning the lottery (it wouldn't if still owned by the offender) and the current owner gets a compensation otherwise (if eligible, i.e. if when he acquired the pick the owner looked on par with gp minimum requirements according to CC assessment).
The adjusted standings only determines if the pick shall drop more than 1 spot (which is not the case here, as a result of the calculation).

So unless I'm missing something else, it seems to me CHI 1st should move back 1 spot. SJ GM might get compensated for that, but not by current CHI GM, as he is not the offender. So the compensation would be in the form of a league compensatory pick.

Mind you, this is just my speculation, not a CC resolution, so don't take this for granted.

[Sensfanjosh]

While this is a bit of a unique scenario given the GM quit mid-season I think it does make sense to have the pick pushed back since it really isn't fair to KapG to have met the GP minimums and for the pick not to have thus providing bonus value to SJS for no reason. If SJS wins the lottery with a pick that didn't meet GP minimums that doesn't seem right, and it doesn't seem right to have KapG lose value after having followed all the rules. Don't punish CHI, don't punish NYR, and don't reward SJS, everyone should get a fair shake and be happy with that.

[Tony]

Siding with Kyle. This is absurd.

[Arian The Insider]

There will definitely be some discussion about this.. no official ruling has been made.

[CasperX22]

While this is a bit of a unique scenario given the GM quit mid-season I think it does make sense to have the pick pushed back since it really isn't fair to KapG to have met the GP minimums and for the pick not to have thus providing bonus value to SJS for no reason. If SJS wins the lottery with a pick that didn't meet GP minimums that doesn't seem right, and it doesn't seem right to have KapG lose value after having followed all the rules. Don't punish CHI, don't punish NYR, and don't reward SJS, everyone should get a fair shake and be happy with that.

Didn't Cliff win the #2 pick a couple years ago after missing gp? Didn't seem to be much uproar then either.

[foofnik]

While this is a bit of a unique scenario given the GM quit mid-season I think it does make sense to have the pick pushed back since it really isn't fair to KapG to have met the GP minimums and for the pick not to have thus providing bonus value to SJS for no reason. If SJS wins the lottery with a pick that didn't meet GP minimums that doesn't seem right, and it doesn't seem right to have KapG lose value after having followed all the rules. Don't punish CHI, don't punish NYR, and don't reward SJS, everyone should get a fair shake and be happy with that.

Why should I get screwed then? If the pick moves back then I get compensation, which would seemingly be from the league and not from CHI.

[foofnik]

While this is a bit of a unique scenario given the GM quit mid-season I think it does make sense to have the pick pushed back since it really isn't fair to KapG to have met the GP minimums and for the pick not to have thus providing bonus value to SJS for no reason. If SJS wins the lottery with a pick that didn't meet GP minimums that doesn't seem right, and it doesn't seem right to have KapG lose value after having followed all the rules. Don't punish CHI, don't punish NYR, and don't reward SJS, everyone should get a fair shake and be happy with that.

Didn't Cliff win the #2 pick a couple years ago after missing gp? Didn't seem to be much uproar then either.

Yup that one fucked me out of Laine

[kyuss]

While this is a bit of a unique scenario given the GM quit mid-season I think it does make sense to have the pick pushed back since it really isn't fair to KapG to have met the GP minimums and for the pick not to have thus providing bonus value to SJS for no reason. If SJS wins the lottery with a pick that didn't meet GP minimums that doesn't seem right, and it doesn't seem right to have KapG lose value after having followed all the rules. Don't punish CHI, don't punish NYR, and don't reward SJS, everyone should get a fair shake and be happy with that.

Didn't Cliff win the #2 pick a couple years ago after missing gp? Didn't seem to be much uproar then either.

iirc it was a mess actually.

Yup that one fucked me out of Laine

this was the ruling btw http://bbkl.ca/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1206 ... 00#p242731

[kyuss]

If SJS wins the lottery with a pick that didn't meet GP minimums that doesn't seem right

I think if SJ wins the lottery through the dimished % attached to the lowered pick there is nothing wrong really. SJ GM didn't do anything wrong. But if he wins the lottery he doesn't get any compensation obviously (that was made clear in the amended regulation after the (in)famous Lee's case).

[Shoalzie]

Right, moving teams around pre-lottery is the way to go. I never liked the post-draw adjustments.

[foofnik]

While this is a bit of a unique scenario given the GM quit mid-season I think it does make sense to have the pick pushed back since it really isn't fair to KapG to have met the GP minimums and for the pick not to have thus providing bonus value to SJS for no reason. If SJS wins the lottery with a pick that didn't meet GP minimums that doesn't seem right, and it doesn't seem right to have KapG lose value after having followed all the rules. Don't punish CHI, don't punish NYR, and don't reward SJS, everyone should get a fair shake and be happy with that.

Didn't Cliff win the #2 pick a couple years ago after missing gp? Didn't seem to be much uproar then either.

iirc it was a mess actually.

Yup that one fucked me out of Laine

this was the ruling btw http://bbkl.ca/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1206 ... 00#p242731

Yup it was all legal just sucked to get moved out of the spot that won.

[Sensfanjosh]

While this is a bit of a unique scenario given the GM quit mid-season I think it does make sense to have the pick pushed back since it really isn't fair to KapG to have met the GP minimums and for the pick not to have thus providing bonus value to SJS for no reason. If SJS wins the lottery with a pick that didn't meet GP minimums that doesn't seem right, and it doesn't seem right to have KapG lose value after having followed all the rules. Don't punish CHI, don't punish NYR, and don't reward SJS, everyone should get a fair shake and be happy with that.

Why should I get screwed then? If the pick moves back then I get compensation, which would seemingly be from the league and not from CHI.

You're not being screwed you just aren't being rewarded for happening to have a pick that didn't meet gp and isnt being punished due to unique circumstances

[Shoalzie]

It's not as if you still can't win the lottery from whatever position you end up in. The idea is not rewarding a team for tanking and missing badly on GP where they don't get a shot at the 1st slot in the lottery. The benefit of a lottery system is that isn't not a given the top in the #1 or #2 or #3 spots are guaranteed to be in the top 3...see last year's wacky lottery. It is a weighted lottery so there is an advantage to being higher up in the order it's not a guarantee.

[Shoalzie]

It's interesting in the two years they've done this top 3 lottery...the two draws have been far from predictable (or obvious):

In 2017, it was slots 5-13-8 as the top 3 and in 2016, it was slots 1-6-4. Not saying that it can't be #2 or #3 winning the lottery but it's been effective with how that it's not been a formality that 1-2-3 gets the top 3 picks.