Can't Touch This

[kyuss]

well... i've encouraged people from day 1 to get their players listed properly... as simple as watching the hockey game


i have no clue if it was park that beat me kareem.. but, that's so far behind me, i was out of the playoffs already... was a nice comeback you made one me, brag about it all you want.. but to suggest i have a grudge from it is dumb.


grioux is as much a winger as richards is ...from game 30 right through the end of the playoffs...


you keep saying these sites are paid to keep this info up to date. sheer bs. they keep their stats up to date... they still list marleau as a C... they still list oshie as a C



watch the game (my god its hard not to swear at your sometimes kareem... i know u watch the games, and i know u watch him take draws and play the majority of his shifts in the position of a centre).... because it means you don't get this loop-hole leg up.... you'll raise hell

lucky for you the other guy (aside from yourself) who gets his way is on your side. moot point i guess... doesn't mean i like it.... or think that its right....

Oshie does play center...Marleau has dual eligibilty...Yahoo and ESPN in particulaur are paid to get it right..

so what, i've been using yahoo for years and i do know how bad it is at assigning positions.. crap is still crap even when it's paid lol.

[Shep]

St. Louis barely takes any draws. But the other Tampa players do

I was always the under the impression you could get a position changed if you wanted it and could prove it. Yahoo has always had Park as a RW.

Berglund only had 200 FOW as a C but played with McDonald all the time who cooncidently had C,LW eligibility in Yahoo. Not sure where I am going with this...

Just saying I am pretty sure that Park takes some draws than slides onto the RW. However, this affects like like 10 players in the league that get 400+ fow from a winger.

Oh well.

[armandtanzarian]

I kinda had a feeling that this position eligibility would become a hot topic when we were limiting the number of centers to 5 from up to 8 possible last season. I know some think it is not that big of a deal but it really is value wise. I know i use to target those zetterbergs in almost all fantasy leagues where FOW is a stat.

What are we going to use as the main resource as proof for eligibility? Like I have Marleau as a C but he was a winger 95% of the time last season. Then i have Iginla who is clearly a winger but he got close to 160 FOW. I know that is not alot but it helps. It was a very simple switch last season.

It is quite difficult to gauge who should be classed as what. Do we use FOW as the main reason to label a center? Or do we use specific sites? What is considered proof for a position change? I think we should take a closer look at this just because it does have an impact.

Maybe we can have a thread where we post player name, CBS listed position, requested position change, then at least 2 written sources of proof? Or will that even work? I am gonna use Marleau as an example because that is who I am familiar with. He clearly was a winger last season playing RW with Thornton and Heatley but he was listed as a center on most sites. This may be an example of what Kareem is talking about. It is kind of tough sometimes to prove, yet it is very obvious to most who watch any hockey. Maybe we can come to an agreeance on this or do we just leave it be? I am fine wither way tbh...

EDIT: after doing some research on Marleau he is listed as LW on hockeyDB and NHL.com sooo yea...And i know Heatley is a LW. Postition eligibility is a very sketchy subject.

[MSP4LYFE]

Marleau is listed as dual on mot fantasy sites, played the first month at C, and the rest at LW when Seto went down.

[kyuss]

It is quite difficult to gauge who should be classed as what. Do we use FOW as the main reason to label a center? Or do we use specific sites? What is considered proof for a position change? I think we should take a closer look at this just because it does have an impact.

yes, it's an important factor.. we would probably need to establish some criteria to follow when a GM applies for a role change.

Not that easy, for example i don't think a player that takes often faceoff should be automatically labeled as a center.

Thinking about using a source, TSN seemed pretty reliable to me when i had to face the same problem in the past.
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/teams/players/bio/?id=1044
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/teams/players/bio/?id=5331

Are double positions allowed on CBS btw?

[bma]

Are double positions allowed on CBS btw?

Yep, some players are eligible at 2 positions.

[Robin Hood]

1) Positional Eligibility is determined by where a player plays AFTER puck drop. Faceoffs are strategically used by coaches all the time. I.e. on the PP yesterday when Carter took the FO on the PP where Richards scored.
2) If Park takes the faceoff then goes up the ice on the RIGHT side, he is a RW, who is just more skilled at FOW than the option at Centre for the Islanders.
3) Positional Eligibility has NOTHING TO DO WITH FACEOFFS. The only thing you can argue is that the player gets Dual Eligibility.
4) Kyle mentioned Iginla and his 160 Faceoffs. Do you know WHY he has 160 faceoffs? Because Iginla's centers are more aggresive on the dot because they have Iginla as a backup if they get thrown out of the dot. That is HUGE FANTASY AND REAL NHL VALUE.
5) We are an H2H league that uses FOW as a category. If every team can only carry 5 guys who take FOW, there is NO STRATEGY LEFT TO EMPLOY. Wingers who are good at faceoffs are a weapon. Just like Grinders like Cooke who put up points.
6) It is NOT an UNFAIR ADVANTAGE. If ANYTHING people know the value of wingers that win faceoffs. I.e. If anyone asks for Park from Kareem, a premium will need to be paid. I had to pay a HUGE PRICE to shep for Backes.
7) We want more strategy not less strategy. Lets not overregulate.

[Topher]

A little late on the topic Shiv since this was all understood already

[armandtanzarian]

I like it Shiv, you outlined all the points and it is easy to understand for some who may have been confused...

[Nick]

lol

shiv try watching an islanders game. tell me park doesn't play Centre from puck drop right to the change (more games then not).


iggy & backes are quiet different then park, I'm not just looking at FOW/FOT...


anyways.

[Shep]

The following are the only players with wing eligibility that are in the top 100 in FOW in our league.

Steckel - 637
Zetterberg - 544
Park - 536
Backes - 504
Begin - 371
Giroux - 297

Now I gotta ask. Is this really a problem? It's not like it's littering our league. A very select few.

[armandtanzarian]

The following are the only players with wing eligibility that are in the top 100 in FOW in our league.

Steckel - 637
Zetterberg - 544
Park - 536
Backes - 504
Begin - 371
Giroux - 297

Now I gotta ask. Is this really a problem? It's not like it's littering our league. A very select few.

Nah, I would just say its summer boredom. Its not really an issue. If you have one of those players good for you. Our eligibility is so forgiving it should not be a major concern.

[kyuss]

The following are the only players with wing eligibility that are in the top 100 in FOW in our league.

Steckel - 637
Zetterberg - 544
Park - 536
Backes - 504
Begin - 371
Giroux - 297

Now I gotta ask. Is this really a problem? It's not like it's littering our league. A very select few.

i guess the problem is we apparently don't have a rule nor even a standard for position eligibility.
If i am not mistaken it's all up to one person's discretion. That's not necessarily something that can't work well, it all depends on him.

Still, would be good to know which criteria are used to take those decision (maybe they're known and i'm the only one unaware)..

i mean, i'm wondering for example why Steckel is a LW instead of a C, whereas Regin is still only a C.

[MSP4LYFE]

i guess the problem is we apparently don't have a rule nor even a standard for position eligibility.
If i am not mistaken it's all up to one person's discretion. That's not necessarily something that can't work well, it all depends on him.

Still, would be good to know which criteria are used to take those decision (maybe they're known and i'm the only one unaware)..

i mean, i'm wondering for example why Steckel is a LW instead of a C, whereas Regin is still only a C.

As usual, you are mistaken, there is no discretion involved when determining position eligibility...We go by CBS positions, and can apply for changes with an admin (Scott/Matt/Mike) provided we have substantial evidence, I.E. game sheet, or confirmation from a major site (NHL.com/yahoo/espn).

[MSP4LYFE]

i mean, i'm wondering for example why Steckel is a LW instead of a C, whereas Regin is still only a C.

Because Regin played the vast majority of the season in the middle on the third line, and second line with Kovalev when Spezza was injured. Therefore no wing eligibilty...Steckel is a unique situation, the Capitals have 7 natural centerman (Backstrom, Morrisonn, Steckel, Fleischmann, Belanger, Gordon, Laich), as a result many were shifted throughout the lineup (save for Laich, he stayed at LW the entire season IIRC), and thus recieved multiple posisition eligibilty.

[bills09]

yea and until cbs does their summer update these arguements are rediculous, for all we know park or steckel could be listed as a Center by CBS next season.

[MSP4LYFE]

yea and until cbs does their summer update these arguements are rediculous, for all we know park or steckel could be listed as a Center by CBS next season.

Yep...Honestly I think some are making a big deal out of nothing, every league I have ever played in has some skewed eligibilty, I.E. Liriano with RP and SP eligibilty, but it's never been an issue, rather a motivator to collect guys like this. But it seems like enough people are on the same page here, so I don't forsee it being an issue.

[Nick]

yea and until cbs does their summer update these arguements are rediculous, for all we know park or steckel could be listed as a Center by CBS next season.

Yep...Honestly I think some are making a big deal out of nothing, every league I have ever played in has some skewed eligibilty, I.E. Liriano with RP and SP eligibilty, but it's never been an issue, rather a motivator to collect guys like this. But it seems like enough people are on the same page here, so I don't forsee it being an issue.

only 5 people have even bothered to read the thread, LOL.

[kyuss]

i guess the problem is we apparently don't have a rule nor even a standard for position eligibility.
If i am not mistaken it's all up to one person's discretion. That's not necessarily something that can't work well, it all depends on him.

Still, would be good to know which criteria are used to take those decision (maybe they're known and i'm the only one unaware)..

i mean, i'm wondering for example why Steckel is a LW instead of a C, whereas Regin is still only a C.

As usual, you are mistaken, there is no discretion involved when determining position eligibility...

lol, let me add a due in your opinion.

We go by CBS positions, and can apply for changes with an admin (Scott/Matt/Mike) provided we have substantial evidence, I.E. game sheet, or confirmation from a major site (NHL.com/yahoo/espn).

fine, so this is the 'rule', i couldn't read it anywhere.

any example of a gamesheet that could be used?
as for getting confirmation from major site, i know for sure yahoo has been crap till now as far position eligibility goes.. not sure about nhl.com and espn.. anyway, the question is:
all it takes to have the role changed/added is providing confirmation by ONE of those major sites?
If that's the case i think we can get the position we want for most players that ever played in more than one position, which could still be a standard, not saying otherwise.

Yep...Honestly I think some are making a big deal out of nothing, every league I have ever played in has some skewed eligibilty, I.E. Liriano with RP and SP eligibilty, but it's never been an issue, rather a motivator to collect guys like this. But it seems like enough people are on the same page here, so I don't forsee it being an issue.

i agree there is no point in arguing over a specific case before CBS updates..i was mentioning Steckel and Regin to understand the criteria used.
However, as for the subject not being a big deal, i disagree. Having a player's position changed, especially during the season, can be a decisive factor (obviously with main reference to FW).
You would have a point if players' roles were establlished once and for all at the start of the league, with all the GMs having the same chance to go after them, but that's not our case.

[MSP4LYFE]

i guess the problem is we apparently don't have a rule nor even a standard for position eligibility.
If i am not mistaken it's all up to one person's discretion. That's not necessarily something that can't work well, it all depends on him.

Still, would be good to know which criteria are used to take those decision (maybe they're known and i'm the only one unaware)..

i mean, i'm wondering for example why Steckel is a LW instead of a C, whereas Regin is still only a C.

As usual, you are mistaken, there is no discretion involved when determining position eligibility...

lol, let me add a due in your opinion.

We go by CBS positions, and can apply for changes with an admin (Scott/Matt/Mike) provided we have substantial evidence, I.E. game sheet, or confirmation from a major site (NHL.com/yahoo/espn).

fine, so this is the 'rule', i couldn't read it anywhere.

any example of a gamesheet that could be used?
as for getting confirmation from major site, i know for sure yahoo has been crap till now as far position eligibility goes.. not sure about nhl.com and espn.. anyway, the question is:
all it takes to have the role changed/added is providing confirmation by ONE of those major sites?
If that's the case i think we can get the position we want for most players that ever played in more than one position, which could still be a standard, not saying otherwise.

Yep...Honestly I think some are making a big deal out of nothing, every league I have ever played in has some skewed eligibilty, I.E. Liriano with RP and SP eligibilty, but it's never been an issue, rather a motivator to collect guys like this. But it seems like enough people are on the same page here, so I don't forsee it being an issue.

i agree there is no point in arguing over a specific case before CBS updates..i was mentioning Steckel and Regin to understand the criteria used.
However, as for the subject not being a big deal, i disagree. Having a player's position changed, especially during the season, can be a decisive factor (obviously with main reference to FW).
You would have a point if players' roles were establlished once and for all at the start of the league, with all the GMs having the same chance to go after them, but that's not our case.

That is a terrible point...Position eligibility changes over the course of a season, players switch spots, or can get dual eligibility due to an injury, to limit players to one position at the start of the season is beyond moronic. I also completely disagree with you in regards to Yahoo, they are fantastic with eligibility, and make quick updates. I'm not sure what your problem with them is...