TOR/STL

[Arian The Insider]

meh, if mueller returns to form shep kills this

[bills09]

still lots of risk involved, not that picks arent risky as well.

[Robin Hood]

Wow. Ridiculous. I'd never pay that lol

Three late (25-30) 1sts for a 23-year-old top-6 winger with great upside? I do not find this to be ridiculous, and I wager most of the GMs who finished in the top-10 last season would agree with me.

Don't worry Mikey. People overrating picks/prospects means you'll get paid at the draft next year.

[Chris]

Yea, let's ignore the fact that Mueller still hasnt been cleared to play yet. Whoooooo Hoo.

[Robin Hood]

Yea, let's ignore the fact that Mueller still hasnt been cleared to play yet. Whoooooo Hoo.

No let's take that into account. What do you think carries a higher NHL upside in the next 3-4 years in fantasy hockey. Threee 1st Round picks or a young NHLer like Mueller. I bet Jensen + those two picks won't even see a game of NHL time while Mueller could put up a 50 point season in one of the next two seasons.

[Chris]

Risk vs. Reward. Wouldnt be worth it to me, or anyone without depth/rebuilding.

[Shep]

Yea, let's ignore the fact that Mueller still hasnt been cleared to play yet. Whoooooo Hoo.

Colorado Avalanche forward Peter Mueller is one physical away from resuming play after nearly a yearlong absence from hockey due to lingering concussion symptoms.

GOOD ENOUGH FOR ME!

[Scott]

Personally, I would've targeted someone else simply because I hate buying guys with hype and someone who missed an entire season. But drafts picks... meh. Who really cares? And Nik Jensen's overrated..

[Nick]

Some acknowlegement of his injury history would put that payment into context, Mike. Even so, rebuilding doesnt favour this kind of trade.

The odds of Mueller returning and kicking ass far far far exceeds that of anything going the other way. Add in no wait period, and a strong chance for SOME value upswing in the near future, this is exactly the sort of risk that are smart for any team, not just contenders.

[Chris]

Some acknowlegement of his injury history would put that payment into context, Mike. Even so, rebuilding doesnt favour this kind of trade.

The odds of Mueller returning and kicking ass far far far exceeds that of anything going the other way. Add in no wait period, and a strong chance for SOME value upswing in the near future, this is exactly the sort of risk that are smart for any team, not just contenders.

Not really. We're talking about a rebuilding team vs. a contending team. When I say I'm lacking in NHL depth, but heavy in prospects, and picks, it doesn't mean I'm going to give up futures for a maybe because you guys think it's good risk management. It's terrible risk management. If I sacrifice prospects and draft picks in my line-up for a concussed player - who still hasn't been cleared to play and likely won't have his skating legs under him for a year - I'm losing continuity in my line, especially if Mueller doesn't come back to play the way he did before he was injured.

When rebuilding teams make those kind of trades, they are throwing away flexibility and devaluing their own assets due to unnecessary risks.

A contending team like St. Louis can afford to risk those picks - he's got NHL depth in just about every spot throughout his line-up. Team's like mine, cannot. So no, this isn't "exactly the sort of risk that are smart for any team."

And for the record, I was going to offer Kreider until Mike informed me that there were bigger offers on the table.

This retarded value system gets pushed down the throats of rebuilding teams so the contenders can take advantage of them.

Stupid.

Edit: By stupid, I mean the concept is stupid, not you Nick.

[Nick]

And you are definitely still new to BBKL and in-depth GMing, IMO holding the hockey-forum values. You are not admitting the risk that those draft picks represent; the odds of a top 6 forward anywhere in the draft outside the top few is very, very low. When time is taken into consideration, rebuilding quickly begins to apply to the NHL roster - then the cupboard.


Mueller is not some scrub, oldie, or anything approaching that. He's a big body, strong skating, top end shooting young player who has endured a concussion and was very careful with this recovery. I personally would have taken Kredier in place of what was paid here - kid is a a top end prospect IMO, and much more proven then anything in this deal - however because of the chance for a value change, and Mike's ability to wait, I likely would have kept Peter..

[Robin Hood]

I don't think people realize how many 1st Round picks can end up being absolutely nothing in the NHL or how many even if they make it to the NHL can end up being nothing more than 3rd liners. This is not the real NHL. Teams do not have the luxury of free agency. The objective is to build the best 20 man roster. Prospects won'tever help you do that. Teams looking to build through the draft only have hope if they hold top end picks. Otherwise you will be stuck in limbo for a very long time.

[Chris]

My mindset will change as my prospects begin to mature and start playing games of consequences here.

1st Round picks are valued intrinsically. You have control over what you do with them. You have the choice in who you pick with those picks. That is absolutely invaluable. To pretend those picks mean nothing is dumbly pretending that no one overpays enormously for them prior to the draft.

And that's what continuity is - using your futures to gain leverage in trade talks so you can protect your most valued assets or get guys who can help you a couple of years down the road, or use to gain valuable H2H players like I did with Bryan (Ashton for Brent).

A rebuilding team trading futures for guys like Mueller, who only had a 15 game sample size of PPG productivity, is a risk. A very high-risk one.

[Scott]

IMO, 1st round picks are great add on pieces to deals to land solid h2hers. Nothing more. I've been preaching it for almost 3 years now... you guys are catching up.

[Mike]

IMO, 1st round picks are great add on pieces to deals to land solid h2hers. Nothing more. I've been preaching it for almost 3 years now... you guys are catching up.

Scott, you're too humble some times.

[Scott]

IMO, 1st round picks are great add on pieces to deals to land solid h2hers. Nothing more. I've been preaching it for almost 3 years now... you guys are catching up.

Scott, you're too humble some times.

Always.. but honestly Mike, you can't say I haven't been preaching this.. nobody can.

[Shep]

My mindset will change as my prospects begin to mature and start playing games of consequences here.

1st Round picks are valued intrinsically. You have control over what you do with them. You have the choice in who you pick with those picks. That is absolutely invaluable. To pretend those picks mean nothing is dumbly pretending that no one overpays enormously for them prior to the draft.

And that's what continuity is - using your futures to gain leverage in trade talks so you can protect your most valued assets or get guys who can help you a couple of years down the road, or use to gain valuable H2H players like I did with Bryan (Ashton for Brent).

A rebuilding team trading futures for guys like Mueller, who only had a 15 game sample size of PPG productivity, is a risk. A very high-risk one.

I don't feel like waiting 3+ years for my late 1sts to pan out, if they ever do.

[anton]

obviously if you look at the deal like that you can sway it in your favour. but you probably weren't going to use those picks anyway. the idea is that quality assets like these could've been used on someone with a little more certainty and dependability than mueller.

let's not forget that in the last 3 seasons mueller has really only ever been impressive for a 15 game span which occurred prior to his second serious concussion.

[Shep]

obviously if you look at the deal like that you can sway it in your favour. but you probably weren't going to use those picks anyway. the idea is that quality assets like these could've been used on someone with a little more certainty and dependability than mueller.

let's not forget that in the last 3 seasons mueller has really only ever been impressive for a 15 game span which occurred prior to his second serious concussion.

I absolutely agree. I like the risk and upside of Mueller. If he doesn't come back awesome, then fuck me. If he does, then boomshakalaka.