STL/VAN

[Chris]

So good, he's been on the ice for more goals than he's scored, sports one of the most ineffective PK% in the NHL, and offensively, completely unreliable.

Yup, he's been excellent.

hey man, just wondering, could you please name me a player who's scored more goals than they've been on the ice for.

thanks dude.

No one. Which was not a part of my argument at all. You lose. Try another tangential counter.

[Chris]

So good, he's been on the ice for more goals than he's scored, sports one of the most ineffective PK% in the NHL, and offensively, completely unreliable.

Yup, he's been excellent.

Well your metrics show that Schenn is an "irreplaceable" defenceman, and he's already been passed on the depth charts by Keith Aulie...

He has not been surpassed by Keith Aulie who has been protected by Phaneuf in the first place. In fact, Chemmy of PPP had done an interesting job of analysing Schenn's play -- you might wish to read the comments as well: http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2012/ ... uke-schenn

[Robin Hood]

I would trade Luke Schenn in a deal for Bobby Ryan or a similar solid roster forward.

That being said I would keep him otherwise.

Isn't this what everyone thinks anyways? Why are we arguing?

[Chris]

I would trade Luke Schenn in a deal for Bobby Ryan or a similar solid roster forward.

That being said I would keep him otherwise.

Isn't this what everyone thinks anyways? Why are we arguing?

Because Franson > Schenn apparently -- which is fucking ridiculous.

[Chris]

It really bothers me that so many people fill context of hockey players by measuring them through goals and assist. Bogosian isn't even going to breach 40 points this year, while offering horrific defensive play. At what point does he go from future franchise defenseman to a Joe Corvo?

[MSP4LYFE]

So good, he's been on the ice for more goals than he's scored, sports one of the most ineffective PK% in the NHL, and offensively, completely unreliable.

Yup, he's been excellent.

Well your metrics show that Schenn is an "irreplaceable" defenceman, and he's already been passed on the depth charts by Keith Aulie...

He has not been surpassed by Keith Aulie who has been protected by Phaneuf in the first place. In fact, Chemmy of PPP had done an interesting job of analysing Schenn's play -- you might wish to read the comments as well: http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2012/ ... uke-schenn

I've seen every advanced statistic on Schenn, including CORSI and player shares, none of that changes my opinion of him. Luke Schenn is a good defensive defenceman who is replaceable if the right deal came along, ditto with Keith Aulie. He does alot of things really, really well, but make no mistake he is very much replaceable.

[MSP4LYFE]

It really bothers me that so many people fill context of hockey players by measuring them through goals and assist. Bogosian isn't even going to breach 40 points this year, while offering horrific defensive play. At what point does he go from future franchise defenseman to a Joe Corvo?

I would be more willing to accept your last claim if you weren't so adamant that Schenn at 22 is far from a finished product. You can't pick and choose when to apply that argument.

[Chris]

I have used very few advanced metrics in this argument. I've focused solely on simple things while keeping it relative. He is NOT replaceable. You'll learn that very quickly. And apparently facetiousness isn't a strong suit of yours Kareem. At least you got my point after reading this sentence.

[Chris]

Also, I'm not entirely sure you read the article I just sent you. You might want to look at the comps.

[Robin Hood]

1. Schenn is replaceable.
2. Franson is replaceable.
3. Schenn > Franson
4. Schenn is a low-ceiling player.
5. Franson has the size and skill to lead to higher upside than Schenn (not a lock by any means)
6. Schenn's got far higher name value in a trade for Burke
7. In a deal to land a forward Schenn will be asked for and likely moved before Franson because of #4, #5 and #6.

/Topic

[MSP4LYFE]

I have used very few advanced metrics in this argument. I've focused solely on simple things while keeping it relative. He is NOT replaceable. You'll learn that very quickly. And apparently facetiousness isn't a strong suit of yours Kareem. At least you got my point after reading this sentence.

We'll see I suppose, I don't see what you are seeing, obviously, but I've been wrong before.

P.S. That same article was posted on HF, I've read it.

[Chris]

1. Schenn is replaceable.
2. Franson is replaceable.
3. Schenn > Franson
4. Schenn is a low-ceiling player.
5. Franson has the size and skill to lead to higher upside than Schenn (not a lock by any means)
6. Schenn's got far higher name value in a trade for Burke
7. In a deal to land a forward Schenn will be asked for and likely moved before Franson because of #4, #5 and #6.

/Topic

You are factually erroneous.

[Shep]

Find me a defensive defenseman as braindead as Schenn when it comes to hockey sense, with extremely limited offence ability, that is irreplaceable.

He's very replaceable and trading him for a young offensive stud is exactly what this team needs to do.

[Nick]

If Noel isn't going to play Kane maybe he's moveable.., on for all sorts of goals against.

[Shep]

If Noel isn't going to play Kane maybe he's moveable.., on for all sorts of goals against.

He's obviously not moveable from what I've seen.

[MSP4LYFE]

If Noel isn't going to play Kane maybe he's moveable.., on for all sorts of goals against.

I've read alot of rumors that Kane wants out of Winnipeg.

[Nick]

I'd be frigging shocked if he was moved, way way too much potential there.

Was supposed to be a lame chirp at Chris regarding measuring impact by goals against.

[Chris]

It's hard to chirp someone who is always right.

[Nick]

Ah! That explains why this has been so easy

Watching a few games is the easiest way to spot a good player, and IMO Bogo has been the best of DD, Myers, & Schenn this year. However that draft year is really emerging now. Important roles for a ton of them, obviously Stamkos and DD, but Bogo, PieT are their teams #1, Schenn, Wilson, Boedker, Hodgson, all see regular shifts...Myers is the #1 there, Karlsson is scoring up a storm, Colborne, Gardiner both look promising for the leafs, Sbisa looks like poop but is playing for the ducks, MDZ as Billy will confirm is playing extremely well for the rangers, Eberle, Ennis, Carlson... man quiet the draft! And that's just the first round!!!!


Markstrom, Voynov, Adam, Dalpe, Stepan, Hamonic, Hayes, Z.Smith, Henrique, Lotkionov, Martin and whoever i missed on my quick skim all showing signs of being important players for their respective teams.

Please not, I am NOT saying Bogo > DD & Myers, I'm saying from what I've seen this year, he's been better. Who's the best long term? Putting a ceiling on any of them seems silly to me, but Schenn clearly is the lowest in terms of a complete game...well aside from karlsson who's miles from understanding how to play in his own end.

Ammo = loaded.

[The BBKL Insider]

If Noel isn't going to play Kane maybe he's moveable.., on for all sorts of goals against.

i for one would take kane over ryan.