NHL Transactions, Injuries & Rumours

[Chuck Norris]

I personally have decided that the idea of "systems" is now dead after trying to acquire the VAN system. You run into guys who want ridiculous overpayment (not true market value like you claim Matthew!!!) and others who just don't want to trade your guy outright. I could gut my team just to complete my system but then I end up in a worse spot than I start. Im planning on rolling with Lack/Miller/Markie and once CAR settles its whole Ward thing then Ill decide which two to keep. Until then someone will likely be out a goalie.

[Chuck Norris]

Phillips out an extra month with cracked vertebrae

Brett Ritchie out 4 months after wrist surgery

[Sensfanjosh]

It does nothing for the health of the league to have some assets absolutely disproportionately highly priced based on their production.

this is just wrong imho.

If I think a player's production has a good chance to skyrocket in the future I'm fully entitled to price him accordingly no matter how other GMs who don't feel the same would like to acquire him.

What I mean is. If you have a lower tier goaltender who does little to nothing to help you in the goaltender stat field besides GP and the occasional W or strong effort. It seems that the asking price is for multiple consistent mid-high end producers out of your player stat field. The demand out there is to make your roster significantly worse to fill a certain position, and I don't think that is healthy.

Now as mentioned everyone isn't like this. But I would say it is the current dominant perspective after significant investigation around the league.

I think this hits on a lot of good points personally. There are no doubt cases where guys love their player and see that they are asking for true value, as per Mik's post and this is perfectly reasonable. The issue arises with teams like the one I inherited, or even Scott's situation recently wherein you come up against the GGP rules and are faced with missing GGP and being penalized or being forced to sell off what little tangible assets you have just to meet basic requirements. This problem becomes compounded due to the elasticity of the goalie market, let's say for example Mike Smith loses his job in ARI (however unlikely that might be) and now Scott is forced to pay for another goalie despite having already moved a lot of value to get Smith, and this only further injuries his team. Additionally the simple fact that most teams in the league simply don't want to move goalies because they prefer the security of having multiple goalies, and or have spent time and picks researching and drafting/developing and it creates problems with league health. Not sure there is an easy answer to this, but as I've mentioned before I sincerely believe that this is something to be addressed, and that saying "stop being cheap and pay" is a luxury that some of the teams that do have valuable assets have that is not shared in a 30 team league and needs to be considered.

[kyuss]

It does nothing for the health of the league to have some assets absolutely disproportionately highly priced based on their production.

this is just wrong imho.

If I think a player's production has a good chance to skyrocket in the future I'm fully entitled to price him accordingly no matter how other GMs who don't feel the same would like to acquire him.

What I mean is. If you have a lower tier goaltender who does little to nothing to help you in the goaltender stat field besides GP and the occasional W or strong effort. It seems that the asking price is for multiple consistent mid-high end producers out of your player stat field. The demand out there is to make your roster significantly worse to fill a certain position, and I don't think that is healthy.

Now as mentioned everyone isn't like this. But I would say it is the current dominant perspective after significant investigation around the league.

I think this hits on a lot of good points personally. There are no doubt cases where guys love their player and see that they are asking for true value, as per Mik's post and this is perfectly reasonable. The issue arises with teams like the one I inherited, or even Scott's situation recently wherein you come up against the GGP rules and are faced with missing GGP and being penalized or being forced to sell off what little tangible assets you have just to meet basic requirements.

as suggested in the past, I think lowering GP minimums while forcing teams facing no Goalies to beat the league average number or an established threshold to win the G stats would help.

[Shoalzie]

My situation is probably more of a tale of warning to any team that is too quick to move a stable goaltending situation for a more volatile situation.

My goaltending situation was probably at its best when I took my team over many moons ago when I had Howard/et al. I think I moved him in a mega deal and all I got back was Jose Theodore as far goalies, who was on the back nine of his career. I also had the likes of Cristobal Huet and then I dabbled in the black art of chasing the Oilers goalies.

If you want to look at a bigger waste of assets, chasing goalies from a bad system is basically an annual expense of assets to my team. From Dubnyk/Khabibulin to Bryzgalov to Scrivens/Fasth to now with Mike Smith. I have to blame myself a lot for poor management of my goaltending from when I was an inexperienced member of this league. Obviously, I didn't like coughing up a potential lottery pick for a starter on a bad team but maybe just maybe it buys me a few years of not having to desperately hunt for another goalie.

I don't know what the perfect situation is for us with goaltending...teams obviously need to worry about managing their assets better so they aren't scrambling for a goalie and don't have to pay more out of desperation.

[CAM]

It does nothing for the health of the league to have some assets absolutely disproportionately highly priced based on their production.

this is just wrong imho.

If I think a player's production has a good chance to skyrocket in the future I'm fully entitled to price him accordingly no matter how other GMs who don't feel the same would like to acquire him.

What I mean is. If you have a lower tier goaltender who does little to nothing to help you in the goaltender stat field besides GP and the occasional W or strong effort. It seems that the asking price is for multiple consistent mid-high end producers out of your player stat field. The demand out there is to make your roster significantly worse to fill a certain position, and I don't think that is healthy.

Now as mentioned everyone isn't like this. But I would say it is the current dominant perspective after significant investigation around the league.

I think this hits on a lot of good points personally. There are no doubt cases where guys love their player and see that they are asking for true value, as per Mik's post and this is perfectly reasonable. The issue arises with teams like the one I inherited, or even Scott's situation recently wherein you come up against the GGP rules and are faced with missing GGP and being penalized or being forced to sell off what little tangible assets you have just to meet basic requirements. This problem becomes compounded due to the elasticity of the goalie market, let's say for example Mike Smith loses his job in ARI (however unlikely that might be) and now Scott is forced to pay for another goalie despite having already moved a lot of value to get Smith, and this only further injuries his team. Additionally the simple fact that most teams in the league simply don't want to move goalies because they prefer the security of having multiple goalies, and or have spent time and picks researching and drafting/developing and it creates problems with league health. Not sure there is an easy answer to this, but as I've mentioned before I sincerely believe that this is something to be addressed, and that saying "stop being cheap and pay" is a luxury that some of the teams that do have valuable assets have that is not shared in a 30 team league and needs to be considered.

Great Post Josh, Pretty much agree with all you are saying.

[kimmer]

Fuck goalies

Just be like me and always have stable goalies

[Shoalzie]

I think that's the goal, Paul...long term stability is what you want and then you draft well develop depth so you can pull from your own pipeline when you need a goalie. Basically, what Mike is doing. He's got a great goaltending situation and he backfills with goalie prospects.

[CAM]

As it stands now, a goalie and a backup are responsible for 25% of our overall stats. That is significant. 2 players = 25% while 18 players = 75%. That is basically 1 player contributing 20% with backup 5% while every other player is basically 4.2%

We need to add a few more cats for skaters.

[kimmer]

And dont forget, Fraser, asking for my one half of the tandem (hiller/ramo) for a roster player of yours isn't me being unreasonable lol. I would never part with my tandem considering that's all I got for goalies and that's not the type of situation id put my team under lol. And it's not like I have extra backups lying around. Just wanted to mention that lol

[Fraser]

Never isolated you as someone being unreasonable, i contacted well over half the league about their backups availability. My post was directed towards the people who either came to me trying to sell goalies or had a glut of them to spare.

[kimmer]

Ya bro lol no singling out here. Just wanted to cover all bases of our fair share of experiences and shit

[The BBKL Insider]

i like both fraser and paul

[kyuss]

As it stands now, a goalie and a backup are responsible for 25% of our overall stats. That is significant. 2 players = 25% while 18 players = 75%. That is basically 1 player contributing 20% with backup 5% while every other player is basically 4.2%

We need to add a few more cats for skaters.

actually, when youn compare to most other leagues, we have one less G cat than most.

The current balance between Gs' and skaters' stats seems correct to me. In real life hockey the goalie is also much more important than your average skater.. just like in your calculation for bbkl...

[Sensfanjosh]

And dont forget, Fraser, asking for my one half of the tandem (hiller/ramo) for a roster player of yours isn't me being unreasonable lol. I would never part with my tandem considering that's all I got for goalies and that's not the type of situation id put my team under lol. And it's not like I have extra backups lying around. Just wanted to mention that lol

That's somewhat missing the point Paul, the fact that you can't make a move like that is exactly whats at stake. Let's say for the sake of argument Ramo returns to Russia this offseason and Hiller's vertigo returns, are you willing to move pieces like Saad and Nelson to add a goalie just to be able to compete in those categories and or not be penalized by the existing rules? You might begrudgingly make such a move but for a lot of team that lack the depth for those deals it involves creating holes elsewhere and there is no guarantee that the goalie acquired will remain with the team or even in the league given the nature of the position currently in the NHL. Again I'm not saying you or anyone else with goalies should just give them away to those who are asking, and many of us have in fact paid a steep price for goaltending at one point or another, but I am saying that there has to be some way of adjusting the way that goalies are treated in the league.

Just to address Mik's point about following the NHL....

The difference being a team can call up a player whenever required to fill a position, or sign a UFA etc, in our league we are not afforded that same capacity. In the NHL you also see players like Lack moved for picks and the same is not true in BBKL. At some point the fact that this isn't actually the NHL and that there are tangible differences in our ability to manage our teams needs to be acknowledged.

I think most here agree that the issue is not the cost of elite goaltending, if you want Rinne, Price, Quick etc you should be expected to pay a high price, but the cost of your borderline NHLers is so inflated that it's a problem, especially when the rules of the league dictate that you must compete in those categories, things might be different if dressing goalies became optional or rules were relaxed a bit in this regard- not that I am proposing that exact change but these are the points to consider.

[kimmer]

Yes, I would pay nelson for a goalie +

[Fraser]

As it stands now, a goalie and a backup are responsible for 25% of our overall stats. That is significant. 2 players = 25% while 18 players = 75%. That is basically 1 player contributing 20% with backup 5% while every other player is basically 4.2%

We need to add a few more cats for skaters.

Have seen this argument thrown around quite a bit. Its a total oversimplification in my books, and while I know you aren't directly arguing here that any goalie is worth a minimum of 2-3 roster players by this % of categories fact, there are those who do believe this so I may as well publicly disagree here.

First and foremost. A goaltender only consistently helps you in these 1/4 of categories if he is consistently well above the mean of other goaltenders per category, otherwise all he is really doing is helping you lose in 1/4 of your categories every week.

On a similar note goaltending stats are worth 1/4 of categories for you and your opponent. What should be a totally obvious fact, this has been overlooked in conversations I have had. Just because Joe Goaltender is registering numbers in 25% of my stats, its the exact same on the other side of the coin and it isn't some miraculous advantage.

There is no advantage to having more GP in either GAA or SV%, these are the only two stats across the board where this is the case.

Wins and shutouts are largely team based stats. I am trading for the team the goaltender currently plays on here. If he is moved these stats go with them.

Goaltending numbers are volatile on a week to week basis. Even the leagues best goaltenders have off weeks. And even .940 weeks can get beaten by a shutout on your opponents side.

The point is that fantasy goaltending is a damn complicated thing to measure accurately, and by simply throwing figures like its worth a 1/4 of the stats tells a story pretty far off the reality of the situation. Unless you have an absolute superstar consistent goaltender the value of goalies should absolutely fall off a cliff in my opinion, because the worth of them in comparison to the rest of the competition is negligible, and the worth of a poor backup goaltender should be near non-existant as all they do is help you lose.

There is too much inconsistency in goaltending in our week to week format, and players stats are so much easier to bank on and build around more consistently.

[CAM]

As it stands now, a goalie and a backup are responsible for 25% of our overall stats. That is significant. 2 players = 25% while 18 players = 75%. That is basically 1 player contributing 20% with backup 5% while every other player is basically 4.2%

We need to add a few more cats for skaters.

actually, when youn compare to most other leagues, we have one less G cat than most.

The current balance between Gs' and skaters' stats seems correct to me. In real life hockey the goalie is also much more important than your average skater.. just like in your calculation for bbkl...

I can agree with that. But generally speaking when changes occur with contracts, injuries, trades, etc for goalies and backups it is out of our hands. When those same things happen with skaters it is easy to fill a hole. Not so when it comes to goalies and the fear of punishment for missing games played and the penalties imposed causes teams to overpay for players and ultimately hurt the franchise in the long run because GM's that have all the goalies know that the people who need them are back in a corner. I am not taking away from the GM's who know this and did there homework and focused on building up huge goalie stocks. It is smart. Big picture though how do we maybe improve the situation for the health of the league? it is a precarious spot we are in, no?

[kyuss]

Just to address Mik's point about following the NHL....

The difference being a team can call up a player whenever required to fill a position, or sign a UFA etc, in our league we are not afforded that same capacity. In the NHL you also see players like Lack moved for picks and the same is not true in BBKL. At some point the fact that this isn't actually the NHL and that there are tangible differences in our ability to manage our teams needs to be acknowledged.

hey, it' not like I don't recognize the difference between BBKL and the NHL, in the past I've been more than once the one saying we should not be obsessed in having the same rules on all matters.

but when it comes to the weight of our G stats and the weight of G on NHL teams' performances in real life, I think that looks pretty similar and should stay that way.

The differences you pointed out should be addressed in different ways rather than reducing the % of G stats on our total number of stats.

And it's not like I didn't offer my two cents already on a possible change to improve things for this matter

[KapG]

Goalie situation will always be tricky in a 30 person league...