Buds Board Keepers League

The BBKL Insider wroteCOLONTo be fair, starting 2 starters is certainly "not out of the gms control"

I'm not sure going into this week Lehtonen could really be considered a #1G (i mean, as far as THIS week goes) over Enroth, as he lost his last start with a 900%. So personally I was expecting them to split starts this week.


Anyway, my point is:

The lineup was NOT at all illegal when dressed. It became illegal during the week, without the GM being allowed to address it and avoid it.

And it's not like he could have known Hackett and Enroth would have been given 0 starts on the week...

so he should have only dressed the G of the worst team of the league without using his better G for fears something might happen and a CC decision might follow?
or his G that would have probabkly only played 1 game because his other G could have played 4 games out of 4?

why should he cut his chances short because of something that, even in case it happens, is uncertain what consequences it would bring?


In fact, I went back looking for past discussions over this topic, and the only one I could find had a various of possible outcomes left open.

The one specific discussion is 4 yrs old. I think there has been at least another case like this in more recent yrs, but couldn't find any topic addressing it.

4 yrs ago, AND under the limitaions CBS brought (i.e. impossible to take out only the latter games of a G without erasing all his stats accumulated on the week), these are the options that were suggested:
1- we are not "pulling" a goalie after his games. we are simply putting a freeze on his goalie stats AFTER the 4th game is complete. all games after that won't count towards this weeks stats. Once the 4 game is done his goalie stats are DONE for the week.
2- the GM pick before 4th & 5th games
3- less GP goalie is removed
4- Goalie who starts 5th games is removed
5- Goalie receiving unexpected extra starts is removed


#1:
at the time, that was deemed complicated cause it was not possible to do it on CBS and would have needed to copy and past stats on the forum, having a different outcome than on CBS as a result. I think it would be done without problems on Fantrax.

#2:
too late for that, Luke would have needed to make that decision before the 5th game, and there is the valid argument against it as a permanent rule that it would encourage teams to get/keep 2 starters. Albeit to a lesser extent, this may apply as well to #1 as a permanent rule.

#3:
in this case, this would mean removing all Lehto's stats

#4:
this seems odd, especially when one gets 5th and the other a 6th

#5:
in this case it would be unclear which goalie received unexpected starts. Lindback certainly did, so you would take his stats away, but as I said myself above, an argument could be made that Lehtonen starting the 1st game of this week was not necessarily the most probable scenario.


There may also be the argument that since during the RS I think some team already had more than 4 and nothing happened, the same should apply here. But even if I'm not sure and I couldn't find quick evidence of that, I seem to remember at some point in the past we made a separation between the cases of RS and PO.

One thing for sure, in that CC 4yrs old thread the one thing clear was that teams would not be allowed to keep stats from more than 4 G games.
That probably changed for the RS later on, but I don't remember that to be changed for playoffs.

about #1, this was what the CC chief at the time said:

I was not aware of this rule. I never really looked tbh as it doesnt affect me. I was under the impression that any stats accrued after the 4th start do not count. In other words once 4 starts was reached both goalies were benched by the admins. mid week. I dont know why all goalie stats would be canceled. We cannot control the starts because we are a week long roster system. To have balance i was under the impression that no more than 4 starts would be accepted, therefore admins would bench the goalies for the remainder of the week. It is on the GM to decide if they want to risk losing the latter starts by potentially running with 2 goalies that could play that week.

but he didn't realize it was not doable on CBS and would have needed to be done manually..

whatever we decide (hopefully today), I suspect Lehto's shutout won't count.

I was under the impression that the RS rule was an overall 82 game cap rather than a weekly cap. Or at least that is what was explained to me while I was starting out.

Of those options 1 and 3 make the most sense to me. I would probably side on 3 personally. Just because there is at least some potential for an extreme measure someone could take for an advantage under #1. For example bringing in an extra starter at the deadline, that you researched that had a couple favorable early week starts in the first couple weeks of the playoffs, to play with your regular starter before you would reach the cap both weeks. Definitely a very extreme example, but the potential is there if someone got really creative looking for an advantage.

But then what happens if both had 3 starts? Remove the one with better stats? Worse stats?

So #1 is definitely cleaner. So yea both options are realistically very suitable.

#1:
at the time, that was deemed complicated cause it was not possible to do it on CBS and would have needed to copy and past stats on the forum, having a different outcome than on CBS as a result. I think it would be done without problems on Fantrax.

Would seem the easiest and first 4 starts if there is some hard rule against this and easy to do with fantrax

I thought the goalie gp limit was created because of shtoi

bills09 wroteCOLONI thought the goalie gp limit was created because of shtoi

That would make sense too when a goalie was given credit for SHTOI for every minute his team was shorthanded under CBS. Not that big of an advantage anymore having 5GP compared to 4.

That being said the rule still existed under this seasons cba and needs to be enforced.
If we want to change it we would have to do it this summer

Bruyns wroteCOLON

bills09 wroteCOLONI thought the goalie gp limit was created because of shtoi

That would make sense too when a goalie was given credit for SHTOI for every minute his team was shorthanded under CBS. Not that big of an advantage anymore having 5GP compared to 4.

Oh really I didn't know that so that is def different under fantrax

Bruyns wroteCOLON

bills09 wroteCOLONI thought the goalie gp limit was created because of shtoi

That would make sense too when a goalie was given credit for SHTOI for every minute his team was shorthanded under CBS. Not that big of an advantage anymore having 5GP compared to 4.

it was far from the only reason though.

Being a 30 teams league, CC didn't want to encourage GMs to pursue/keep 2 starters. And that's still valid.

I don't really have an opinion either way. With Buffalo having 2 B2Bs I would have expected 2 games from Lindback and 4 on the week. Luke also isn't new and should have been aware of the rule and knowing there was a chance at more than 4 he could have sat one of Lehtonen or Lindback to avoid losing all goalie cats.

And yes Will there was no way to not have goalie SHTOI count on CBS which was dumb since if you had 4 goalie games and your opponent 2 then SHTOI was usually won without needing a team with a lot ofskaters who PK

bills09 wroteCOLONThat being said the rule still existed under this seasons cba and needs to be enforced.

far from safe saying the rule still exists and needs to be automatically enforced right after a regular season where it was not considered, let alone enforced.

And even if a 4gp limitation still existed only for playoffs (something going by memory I'm positive about, even if I couldn't find confirmation), the matter is how to apply the limitation. Going by past CC discusssions, erasing stats doesn't appear to be the way it was supposed to happen..

kyuss wroteCOLON

Bruyns wroteCOLON

bills09 wroteCOLONI thought the goalie gp limit was created because of shtoi

That would make sense too when a goalie was given credit for SHTOI for every minute his team was shorthanded under CBS. Not that big of an advantage anymore having 5GP compared to 4.

it was far from the only reason though.

Being a 30 teams league, CC didn't want to encourage GMs to pursue/keep 2 starters. And that's still valid.

Yes. As mik suggested I remember this rule was put in place to ensure people didn't hoard 2 starters.

Was it not Hong who was penalized in the past
Imo if there was precedent to a rule that exists in our cba we should not be able to change it during the CURRENT season.

Rule changes should be offseason changes only IMO

Bruyns wroteCOLONI don't really have an opinion either way. With Buffalo having 2 B2Bs I would have expected 2 games from Lindback and 4 on the week. Luke also isn't new and should have been aware of the rule and knowing there was a chance at more than 4 he could have sat one of Lehtonen or Lindback to avoid losing all goalie cats.

the fact he was here for long might as well mean he remembers when that problem arised in the past there were discussions about how to actually implement the limit. I don't even think anyone ever had his G stats erased.

And the fact the week before someone had 5 G starts without anyone making a problem of it, might not only make look inconsistent to act differently the following week, it might have given GMs the (false?) belief exceeding 4gp for goalies was just fine:
http://www.fantrax.com/fantasy/liveScor ... tab=SINGLE

bills09 wroteCOLONWas it not Hong who was penalized in the past

I think Hong's situation with Luongo was about him missing GP minimums and supposedly not working enough to get another G.

Imo if there was precedent to a rule that exists in our cba we should not be able to change it during the CURRENT season.

not only the cba is incomplete and out of date, the precedents actually suggest the rule was either not applied, or only partially applied, and modified for the future (without the cba being updated accordingly)

We have had a few occasions of single teams having 5 GP in a week. What would happen if a team had the duo for that and it occurred?

CAM wroteCOLONWe have had a few occasions of single teams having 5 GP in a week. What would happen if a team had the duo for that and it occurred?

If I remember correctly teams were given passes becsuse they didn't have a choice As long as they started that teams backup and starter.

Once last season I had 5 games with the flyers and I just benched emery. More so becsuse he sucked tho.

Mike wroteCOLONI'm going to leave here all the posts involving this topic, as it because a rules based discussion in the wrong thread.

I have no recollection of making this post...

Mike wroteCOLON

Mike wroteCOLONI'm going to leave here all the posts involving this topic, as it because a rules based discussion in the wrong thread.

I have no recollection of making this post...

Well there's sure to be some other things you don't remember as well