Goalie talk: suggestions to improve GGP/goalie value

[Matthew]

It causes the value of both waiver exempt skaters and waiver exempt goalies to go up, and value of all waiver eligible players to go down. this is due to depleting the waiver exempt market. It thus becomes more attractive to horde any type of waiver exempt player. Also, teams trying to complete systems will find it more difficult as teams are going to be less willing to give up AHL and prospect goalies due to there value being raised. Not to mention, just cuz we make goalies waiver eligible doesn't mean a team needs to move them. For example, I have 3 waiver eligible goalies, but enough waiver exempt skaters that I can keep all 3. If we are going to lower the trade value of waiver exempt goalies, then I just won't trade them, as goalies stats production is important in bbkl, and someone like lindback has more of an impact as a 'just in case' than a 3rd rounder would have. Aka, trade value doesn't match stats value due to a tampered market.

Sorry about 1 paragraph and the way this is written. On my phone.

[Sensfanjosh]

You'll only carry 3 goalies until you start to run into injury issues, unless you plan on being a bad team for the foreseeable future

[Matthew]

Yeah, I doubt I can compete this coming year anyways. And I will have a good amount of exempt nhl players in my minors.

My point was more about this not making that big an impact on making people trade goalies, while having a big affect on the value of exempt players. There will be horders in 2 different markets.

[Sensfanjosh]

Yes but the point is no competitive team would be bale to sit on three goalies like that for very long if they actually wanted to win, so your case could be considered an outlier and no system is able to account for all instances

[Matthew]

Yes but the point is no competitive team would be bale to sit on three goalies like that for very long if they actually wanted to win, so your case could be considered an outlier and no system is able to account for all instances

I disagree. Deep teams with lots of waiver exempt players could do it. Mike, for example, could do it quite easily.

Extra goalie is only taking up 1 of my 3 bench spots.

[Bruyns]

The amount of goalies with more than 30GP and less than 75 is a pretty small number.

This season we have Jones, Mrazek, Hutchinson, Kuemper, Allen, Stalock. All of these goalies are in that 30-75 range and all of them are full time NHLers. I don't think anyone can make a convincing argument that would convince me these goalies should be able to be buried in the minors, if a team has bench space for them that's fine, but I don't think they should be waiver exempt and it can lead to goalie hording.

I don't think this has any bearing on waiver exempt skaters and I don't agree it leads to waiver eligible players value going down. If someone wants to trade for a goalie with less than 30GP I don't think there value will be higher since they are waiver free regardless and I don't think the above players value would take a big hit if they weren't waiver exempt since teams would be trading for them to play them anyways not to stash in the minors.

As for the Lindback point you have brought up a few times, the reason he was cheap is he is likely the worst goalie to own in the league. He has had bad stats for the majority of his career and the Coyotes are the early favourite to finish 30th. The only market for Lindback is a team that needs GP and wants to lose.

"If we are going to lower the trade value of waiver exempt goalies, then I just won't trade them" It doesn't lower trade value and the whole point of lowering waiver GP is to force GMs hands so they can't do what you are advocating and not trade goalies. The league would still work best if teams sought after fair deals and didn't hoard goalies, but this is just a step to keep less NHL goalies in BBKL minors.

[Bruyns]

Yes but the point is no competitive team would be bale to sit on three goalies like that for very long if they actually wanted to win, so your case could be considered an outlier and no system is able to account for all instances

I disagree. Deep teams with lots of waiver exempt players could do it. Mike, for example, could do it quite easily.

Extra goalie is only taking up 1 of my 3 bench spots.

That bench goalie takes away from your cap which hurts competitive teams.

[kyuss]

The amount of goalies with more than 30GP and less than 75 is a pretty small number.

This season we have Jones, Mrazek, Hutchinson, Kuemper, Allen, Stalock.

then, even this change might not improve things much. If those goalies belong to different teams, then they can use one bench spot each and keep all of them off the market anyway.

Yeah, they would have more of an incentive to move them to free up the 3rd bench spot, but that would only be a factor if those goalies happen to be property of a deep team who is competing.

Anyway, I think Goalies waiver eligibility should be somehow linked with the fact they are actually in the NHL rather than in AHL.

Suppose a young goalie played more than 30 games because of injuries to his team's goalies, and then he is back to AHL, maybe for yrs.. there is no way he should be waiver eligible. If that is the case, his value is basically erased: no one wants a goalie in AHL that can not be demoted to the farm.

You could actually lower the GP threshold even further, as long as we manage to make his W eligibility linked with where he plays.

[Sensfanjosh]

I know its an amazing concept but imagine if our waivers actually had players of value on them at some point, I don't think having the odd goalie go on is a problem, and actually would welcome having more valuable skaters on on occasion as well, but that's another topic altogether

[kyuss]

if the problem is with goalies hoarding supposedly preventing teams from dressing goalies without paying ransoms, then you should worry about NHL goalies being waiver eligible, not young AHL goalies

[Bruyns]

Is there a young NHL goalie with 30+ GP in the AHL. Not saying it will never happen, but if a goalie goes down they are going to predominantly play the NHL backup and I think it's pretty rare to have a goalie with 30GP stuck in the AHL unless it's an older guy like Dan Ellis. Markstrom is another over 30 less than 75 guy and last year he actually would have fallen under Mik's example of a young goalie in the AHL. Like Josh mentioned I'm also OK with making a 25 year old Markstrom waiver eligible in this league, he had to clear waivers in the NHL last year and he did so it would have been the same in our league.

Enough on this topic from me since I don't think lower waiver GP for goalies is the perfect solution either. I just view it as one way to get more NHL goalies out of BBKL minors and force some team's hands to get more goalie trades and possibly bring down the price on a backup without starter potential.

[Sensfanjosh]

I'll also stop arguing about this after this post, but again the point imo is not to devalue players, but rather to try and correct a faulty market to ensure the health of the league, top end keepers should go for a kings ransom, but its the fringe type guys that teams shouldn't be over paying for. I'm all for more player movement in general and think our waiver system being tweaked could help in terms of being corrective, even if, as KapG and others have said there's no magic catch all solution. Glad to see we're at least talking about this as a league though.