WAS/CLB Goalie Swap

[Scott]

i think you panicked kareem. you couldve waited it out. nevertheless, halak is amazing.

He's had a great start but Im telling you guys he' s being severely overrated. I've watched him for the past few years religiously and he's NOT as good as you guys are making him out to be. Just wait and see, he'll come back down to Earth soon.

i dont agree with that analysis chuck. i think he has 40 win potential with a sv% north of 0.920 and a gaa south of 2.5. but that still does not warrant adding 3 1sts to miller lol. i think this is the worst trade of kareems career as gm. but if this helps him become a top flight contender once again, i suppose the over over payment can be justified.

Once again? Kareem was always a top flight contender, he's just not very patient. Personally, I wouldn't want to go into the playoffs with anyone over Ryan Miller when healthy.. this trade makes his team worse imo. There is no chance St. Louis and Jaro Halak keep this up..

[Shoalzie]

That's a great deal for Kareem given that Halak is 5 years younger and has a very digestible cap value compared to Miller and Conklin arguably the best backup in the league. I think so far this year, you have to say the Blues' duo in net is the best in the league. In this league, they're probably the pair you want to have.

I think Columbus got great value in return with a top goalie like Miller in return plus other attractive pieces but you can argue, he could've asked for even more. To me, Halak/Conklin's value is through the roof right now and you can command absolutely top value for a goalie combo in the league given their combined price tag cap-wise and with the way they're playing.

I can't find fault in what either team did...Kareem makes a huge jump up the pecking order of contenders with a much improved goaltending situation as well as now having more cap room. Halak/Conklin combined is still more than a million less than Miller and close to 2 million less than Miller/Lalime combined. That's probably one of the biggest things about this deal for Kareem. He improves his goaltending plus he saves money in the process. To me, this is one of the best trades that has been made in this league since I've joined a year ago. Congratulations to Kareem!

[fedro91]

That's a great deal for Kareem given that Halak is 5 years younger and has a very digestible cap value compared to Miller and Conklin arguably the best backup in the league. I think so far this year, you have to say the Blues' duo in net is the best in the league. In this league, they're probably the pair you want to have.

I think Columbus got great value in return with a top goalie like Miller in return plus other attractive pieces but you can argue, he could've asked for even more. To me, Halak/Conklin's value is through the roof right now and you can command absolutely top value for a goalie combo in the league given their combined price tag cap-wise and with the way they're playing.

I can't find fault in what either team did...Kareem makes a huge jump up the pecking order of contenders with a much improved goaltending situation as well as now having more cap room. Halak/Conklin combined is still more than a million less than Miller and close to 2 million less than Miller/Lalime combined. That's probably one of the biggest things about this deal for Kareem. He improves his goaltending plus he saves money in the process. To me, this is one of the best trades that has been made in this league since I've joined a year ago. Congratulations to Kareem!

I agree with this. Botth team did well but I still give the edge to CLB.

[bma]

damn you bcool... you should have done this one week earlier!

lol im sorry, i really really feel bad for you..that was an unfortuante week for you

[bma]

i think you panicked kareem. you couldve waited it out. nevertheless, halak is amazing.

He's had a great start but Im telling you guys he' s being severely overrated. I've watched him for the past few years religiously and he's NOT as good as you guys are making him out to be. Just wait and see, he'll come back down to Earth soon.

i dont agree with that analysis chuck. i think he has 40 win potential with a sv% north of 0.920 and a gaa south of 2.5. but that still does not warrant adding 3 1sts to miller lol. i think this is the worst trade of kareems career as gm. but if this helps him become a top flight contender once again, i suppose the over over payment can be justified.

Agreed. I think Halak will be a top 5 goalie guaranteed by the end of this year, if not higher. Plus he's only 25 and the Blues play a super defensive system. I would've loved to keep Halak and Conklin (best backup in the league) but the offer Kareem made was to much to pass up.

[Shoalzie]

If Halak was making the same money Miller is making, I probably don't give Kareem so much love for the deal. The fact you get his production at a reduced price...to me, that's added value on top of the number Halak will put up. In the then and now, Halak and Miller could potentially put up similar statistics but the fact Conklin and Halak will cost you $2 million less against your cap, that's an extra player or two you can acquire. To me, if you can get a top 5-10 goalie making under $4 million, that's tremendous because you're getting the production at a reduced price. Luongo is a great goalie but do you want to pay the extra $5 or 6 million for an extra shutout or two? To me, if you can get 40 wins, along with a great GAA and SV% and 5-10 shutouts for $4 million or less, you jump on it. Miller making $6 million isn't poor value but Halak making $2 million less is great value. It's the cap ramifications onto of the stats that makes this an awesome trade for Kareem.

[Nick]

There is WAY way too much Halak band-wagon going on here.

The guy is good, no doubt. But I'm with Chuck here... seriously being over-rated, and to say habs fans are 50/50 is wrong. I've seen poles on RDS that had TONS of votes and before the trade happened many were saying "stick with price" -- remember the 20 000 or so people that can afford to & go to a game are not representative of the Habs fan base (ditto with leaf fans... only fan-base this is true of is the Canucks... all their fans really aren't white).

Jaro won't keep these #'s up, that's about as likely as Thomas keeping his GAA under 1 I think to those who are betting inclined this actually might indicate that he has some BAD weeks coming ... eeek.


My take - Kareem solid early & bought high: he knows it, but that doesn't make it a bad move if it puts him back on-top the div, and gets him an easier first round match-up. If Miller wasn't injured I'd say he'd definitely bounce back really soon, but injuries complicate things.


BTW-> Kareem lost the value in this trade by a large amount... Shoalize i'd say your analysis is pretty off, and your cap #'s on Halak are also wrong (he's just under 4M i believe).... but a team like Kareem's can afford to lose some trades in order to win more match-ups.

[Topher]

Also I do not know why Montreal fans would be upset whoever had said that because they had to choose one and Price was the chosen one all along, and I doubt Price's stats are anything to be upset about, he has played 13 games and has a 2.45 GAA with a 910 S% and a shutout most teams would be more than glad to have those for their goalies stats. Remember guys the hockey season is young still.

[Chuck Norris]

Absolutely Halak is a good goalie, and Im the first to admit he carried my Habs through the playoffs last year. He had an absolutely stellar playoffs and dramatically increased his value in doing so. Is he a #1 goalie...absolutely. To say hes a top 5 goalie...never. He will never be Vezina material with the likes of a Brodeur, Miller or Kipper Top 10 goalie maybe but I feel thats even a bit of a stretch (although his performances so far this year are definitely top 10 matieral). The fact is a top flight goalie has to be able to do 2 things:

1) Handle a full NHL schedule...Halak played 45 games last year, the most in his career. Can he handle the rigours of a full NHL schedule where he handles the bulk of the load? Or will he wear out in the second half of the year? Well see this year.

2) Display consistency over MULTIPLE seasons. Halak had one solid year last year, and that only started halfway through the year and through playoffs. Just because he had a good year doesnt mean itll translate into future years. He has to prove that he can consistently put up similar numbers and play not only over a full year, but over many years.

He has alot to prove right now to be lumped in with the top goalies in the NHL. Does he have the talent to do so? I think the talent is there, now he just has to execute. Karim definitely bought on a high, it could turn out very well if Halak proves himself. If he doesnt...well Karim might regret giving up a former Vezina winner. Only time will tell.

[armandtanzarian]

So Habs fans overwhelmingly supported trading Halak instead of Price? I would say you are wrong. That is as close to a split decision as there ever could be. I look at RDS, TSN, watch all the Habs games, read the boards and forums. That trade was terrible on Montreals part. When i say that, I mean they could have gotten alot more than Lars Eller. I mean I do not disagree with keeping Carey Price as a whole but When Halak went on fire in the Playoffs and Price was shitting the bed and being lazy and getting caught smoking, you are saying that before the trade, Habs fans were not split on who to keep going forward? I am completely surrounded by Habs fans in my family, work and daily life. I can use that as a small sample to create my own opinion along with all the other sources i used above. And saying that the Habs faithful that go to the Bell center do not represent the fan base is quite a stretch. If they are there are they not fans of the team? Habs fans are nuts and travel all over NA to attend games. The Leaf games are full of business men who the majority wouldn't know the score after the game. Quite a difference between fan bases, that attend games, if you ask me. I think Halak is an awesome goalie and showed all along that he just wanted to be the starting goalie. He has that now, and imo will continue to be great. Obviously he wont keep up at this pace but he very well could be a top 5 goalie in this league come seasons end. And what do you mean Thomas wont continue at this pace?? He will finish season with 0.91 gaa

[Nick]

I agree before the trade they were roughly split, but that's in-spite of the show that Halak just put on, and how bad Price had been. That shows a notable difference right there. Price has the potential to be a perennial top-5 goalie in the league, I don't believe Halak does.

Post-trade, aside from shit return on Halak, the fans were happy with the decision.

[Robin Hood]

wow whoever thinks this is an even trade is retarded. no offence shoalzie or frank but kareem paid through the nose. his hope is that halak helps him more this year but that in NO WAY means the value going both ways in the trade is close to even LOL. 3 1st round picks went to bry along with Miller. are you seriously suggesting that is the difference between halak and miller? if anything id give the edge to miller lol. halak isnt proven yet. hes had a good post season run and a good start to this season. kareem had his own reasons for making the trade, but he got crushed. he even knows it. he got crushed.

[Shoalzie]

He's paying for a goalie who is 5 years younger, making less money and is with a team that is playing very well with a new coach. No way will the Blues continue their current pace of allowing less than a goal and a half a game but they've got the makings of a top 5 defensive team. Also, Conklin is a much better backup than Lalime. Does the value even out in the wash? It's too early to say but I think he's not out of his mind to make this move. Miller is still a goalie at or near his prime at 30 but Kareem pays a lot for what is essentially a younger and possibly better version of Miller.

Can you win a championship with Miller and Lalime as your goalies? It's possible, but I definitely think you can with Halak and Conklin and the extra cap space as well. The draft picks are only costly if those picks become great players. If Forbort and the two picks all turn into good or great players then good on Columbus. With those two picks...some want to point to the fact the Philly's 2nd is basically a late 1st but New Jersey's 1st is basically an early 2nd. It's 6 is one, half-dozen in the other. If you can find players at those picks, then hats off. Picks are opportunities to get quality players...they're not guarantees.

[Robin Hood]

He's paying for a goalie who is 5 years younger, making less money and is with a team that is playing very well with a new coach. No way will the Blues continue their current pace of allowing less than a goal and a half a game but they've got the makings of a top 5 defensive team. Also, Conklin is a much better backup than Lalime. Does the value even out in the wash? It's too early to say but I think he's not out of his mind to make this move. Miller is still a goalie at or near his prime at 30 but Kareem pays a lot for what is essentially a younger and possibly better version of Miller.

Can you win a championship with Miller and Lalime as your goalies? It's possible, but I definitely think you can with Halak and Conklin and the extra cap space as well. The draft picks are only costly if those picks become great players. If Forbort and the two picks all turn into good or great players then good on Columbus. With those two picks...some want to point to the fact the Philly's 2nd is basically a late 1st but New Jersey's 1st is basically an early 2nd. It's 6 is one, half-dozen in the other. If you can find players at those picks, then hats off. Picks are opportunities to get quality players...they're not guarantees.

i think you're missing the part where forbort and the other two 1st rounders have trade value LOL. and you keep mentioning the 5 year difference in age when youre forgetting miller is not that old to begin with and a vezina winner, while halak has yet to be a starter for a full season in the nhl. i think your breakdown of the trade is awful shoalzie. lol i hope you dont make trades like this yourself.

[Shoalzie]

if anything id give the edge to miller lol. halak isnt proven yet. hes had a good post season run and a good start to this season.

Prior to last year, Miller is a goalie that hadn't posted better than a 2.50 GAA. Miller's numbers last year doesn't mean he's going to put those up consistently. Based on consistency, he's a 2.50 GAA goalie and there's a large difference between a 2.20 and 2.50 or 2.60 GAA. He was 2nd in that category last year but 18th in '08-09 and 24th in '07-08. We don't know exactly how good Miller is after last year either so don't overrate him. To take his numbers last year as his current status in the league wouldn't be any different than taking Halak's 45 games last year plus playoffs and this year's start and saying that's the type of numbers he's going to put up consistency. To me, we're taking one season to determine the value of each guy. The one thing proven about Miller is that he's able to win 35-40 games a year but his save% and GAA has fluctuated. Last year was his best season but up until then, his goals against at least 3 or 4-tenths of a goal higher and his save percentage was 20 to 30 points lower.

[Robin Hood]

if anything id give the edge to miller lol. halak isnt proven yet. hes had a good post season run and a good start to this season.

Prior to last year, Miller is a goalie that hadn't posted better than a 2.50 GAA. Miller's numbers last year doesn't mean he's going to put those up consistently. Based on consistency, he's a 2.50 GAA goalie and there's a large difference between a 2.20 and 2.50 or 2.60 GAA. He was 2nd in that category last year but 18th in '08-09 and 24th in '07-08. We don't know exactly how good Miller is after last year either so don't overrate him. To take his numbers last year as his current status in the league wouldn't be any different than taking Halak's 45 games last year plus playoffs and this year's start and saying that's the type of numbers he's going to put up consistency. To me, we're taking one season to determine the value of each guy. The one thing proven about Miller is that he's able to win 35-40 games a year but his save% and GAA has fluctuated. Last year was his best season but up until then, his goals against at least 3 or 4-tenths of a goal higher and his save percentage was 20 to 30 points lower.

shoalzie nothing you are saying is disproving the fact that kareem gave up Miller + 1st + 1st + 1st + other things for Halak. those picks have HUGE value. in trades, in actuality. kareem will even tell you your analysis is way off. he blatantly overpaid on purpose. but you are calling the trade close to even when its not at all.

[armandtanzarian]

While I agree that Kareem paid through the nose for this trade, I dont doubt him in his decision making. I have about as much patience as he does and when your team is not performing to expectations something needs to happen. He had the resources to make a deal and when you eye a certain player or players that you want, you go for it. We all ahve doen it it in one way or another. I have overpaid on multiple occasions. Yes this is a blatant unbalanced trade, but i do not doubt Kareem in doing what he did as he had the means to do it. The final result of this deal is debatable at seasons end.

[Robin Hood]

p.s. how cool is it that you get to root for my team in the playoffs haha (datsyuk, franzen, lidstrom, howard, osgood)

[Robin Hood]

While I agree that Kareem paid through the nose for this trade, I dont doubt him in his decision making. I have about as much patience as he does and when your team is not performing to expectations something needs to happen. He had the resources to make a deal and when you eye a certain player or players that you want, you go for it. We all ahve doen it it in one way or another. I have overpaid on multiple occasions. Yes this is a blatant unbalanced trade, but i do not doubt Kareem in doing what he did as he had the means to do it. The final result of this deal is debatable at seasons end.

completely agree. lol im taking issue with the fact that shoalzie thinks the value was close to even.

[Robin Hood]

btw kyle, wanna trade me zetterberg ?