Buds Board Keepers League

Only if you add a 7th.

Or wait.. how many rounds in MLB?

80 rounds I believe

overrated deal...

buerhle is on the decline and locked up for multiple years on a big contract
jose reyes is a little overrated too and on a big contract (however he fills a big need and he's awesome to have)
i have confidence in josh johnson to bounce back though

basically i don't like getting buerhle in this deal

so you don't like it because the Jay's spent money in a league without a cap?

Arian wroteCOLONoverrated deal...

buerhle is on the decline and locked up for multiple years on a big contract
jose reyes is a little overrated too and on a big contract (however he fills a big need and he's awesome to have)
i have confidence in josh johnson to bounce back though

basically i don't like getting buerhle in this deal

The Jays lost from a pure $/WAR standpoint, but you can't always make trades on a pure value basis. The Jays added between 8-10 WAR taking aging curves into account, that is unprecedented in a single trade.

With respect to your comments:

1) Mark Buehrle is statistically the same pitcher he was in 2007, his predictive stats (xFIP, FIP and SIERRA) are all above 4, but Buehrle is a SP who has consistently posted an ERA lower than his predictive stats, and has recorded at least 200 IP in 12 straight seasons. Additionally, Buehrle does not rely on overpowering stuff to get outs, he throws a 88 MPH fast-ball with decent off speed offering. Pitchers who rely less on velocity, and more on control and deception tend to age better.

I'm not going to argue that Buehrle's contract provides surplus value, even the most optimistic outlook projects Buehrle as a sunk cost moving forward. That said, Buehrle is a reliable innings eater who can pitch to a sub 4 ERA. That fills a large need on the Blue Jays, and makes them a better team, and there is value in building a legitimate contender, and fans.

2) Jose Reyes is coming off a 6.5 and 4.5 WAR season respectively in 2011 and 2012, I'm not entirely sure how that is overrated, perhaps you would like to elaborate? Of the big three coming to Toronto, Reyes is far and away the most likely to earn his contract.

3) Josh Johnson is the least likely to bounce back, he has a history of injuries, and has experienced a decline in FB velocity two years runnings. That is not to say that he won't or can't bounce back, but it's more realistic to project a season in line with 2012, if not even a little bit worse, pitcher attrition rates being what they are.

Nick wroteCOLONso you don't like it because the Jay's spent money in a league without a cap?

That only matters if the Jays have an unlimited pay-roll, which they do not. The aforementioned trade restricts the Jays pay-roll flexibility, and makes it difficult to add additional talent, from that standpoint I can understand the skepticism, though ultimately I do not agree with it. I think this trade is a huge positive for the Blue Jays franchise and puts them on the precipice of contention in the AL East.

i still think the jays will move out another contract to make room for a big signing this summer.

MSP4LYFE wroteCOLON

Arian wroteCOLONoverrated deal...

buerhle is on the decline and locked up for multiple years on a big contract
jose reyes is a little overrated too and on a big contract (however he fills a big need and he's awesome to have)
i have confidence in josh johnson to bounce back though

basically i don't like getting buerhle in this deal

The Jays lost from a pure $/WAR standpoint, but you can't always make trades on a pure value basis. The Jays added between 8-10 WAR taking aging curves into account, that is unprecedented in a single trade.

With respect to your comments:

1) Mark Buehrle is statistically the same pitcher he was in 2007, his predictive stats (xFIP, FIP and SIERRA) are all above 4, but Buehrle is a SP who has consistently posted an ERA lower than his predictive stats, and has recorded at least 200 IP in 12 straight seasons. Additionally, Buehrle does not rely on overpowering stuff to get outs, he throws a 88 MPH fast-ball with decent off speed offering. Pitchers who rely less on velocity, and more on control and deception tend to age better.

I'm not going to argue that Buehrle's contract provides surplus value, even the most optimistic outlook projects Buehrle as a sunk cost moving forward. That said, Buehrle is a reliable innings eater who can pitch to a sub 4 ERA. That fills a large need on the Blue Jays, and makes them a better team, and there is value in building a legitimate contender, and fans.

2) Jose Reyes is coming off a 6.5 and 4.5 WAR season respectively in 2011 and 2012, I'm not entirely sure how that is overrated, perhaps you would like to elaborate? Of the big three coming to Toronto, Reyes is far and away the most likely to earn his contract.

3) Josh Johnson is the least likely to bounce back, he has a history of injuries, and has experienced a decline in FB velocity two years runnings. That is not to say that he won't or can't bounce back, but it's more realistic to project a season in line with 2012, if not even a little bit worse, pitcher attrition rates being what they are.

i was looking more at BA than OBP when looking at reyes, so i take that statement back. OBP is more important, especially for a lead off hitter who's job is to get on base. maybe it's just me, but i can't see johnson matching the numbers he posted last season.. his numbers from 09-11 have been sick. while he has struggled with injuries, the potential is still there and he is only 28.

mark buehrle has posted poor stats against AL east opponents and his HR's per 9 innings went up even after moving from a hitter's park in chicago to a neutral one in miami. as we all know, the rogers center is a hitter-friendly park. his hits allowed per 9 innings were 8.78 (which is surprisingly his lowest mark in the last 3 seasons) and he's obviously not going to rack up a high amount of strikeouts. his ERA should rise. As a jays fan i hope you're right about buerhle though. We needed the pitching but his salary isn't desirable for the production. at least we have the balls to make a big splash now.

Buerhle is a horse, if anything he's a steady guy who can eat up innings, that's something we've been missing since we traded the Doc.

According to Fox sports Buerhle is going to be the Ace of the staff, someone the young guys can lean on/learn from.

to add to the excitement.. the jays have just signed Melky Cabrera to a 2 year deal worth 16 million

Jays going all out this summer.

wtf!!

I still think we land another starting P.

maybe in a trade of via-free agency.

I imagine JPA will be flipped for another SP

Jays sign Melky Cabrera.

AA means business.

I wouldn't mind taking a run at Zito, he certainly isn't what he use to be, but he could be a very solid middle/bottom or the rotation type of guy we need.

just a solid 2nd baseman who can bat .300 and the team is SICK.

So, who is your outfield now? Cabrera-Rasmus/Gose-Bautista? Bonafacio can play in the infield...maybe he's your 2B?

Shoalzie wroteCOLONSo, who is your outfield now? Cabrera-Rasmus/Gose-Bautista? Bonafacio can play in the infield...maybe he's your 2B?

Definitely Rasmus .. not Gose.