Buds Board Keepers League

kimmer wroteCOLON

Robin Hood wroteCOLONI feel like people in this thread are nuts. Gio should be able to land a package of an amazing 2 for 1 where at least one of the players has a super high ceiling. None of Nielsen, Simmonds or Gio have super high ceilings. They are "what you see is what you get" players. Gio is a great piece, but he's over 30 so the best piece I get in the deal will decline.

If these new bbklers got the concept of cycles, I wouldn't have received the ridiculous response of a youtube video from Fraser. Just strange.

It moreso has nothing to do with their lack of understanding of player cycles but everything to do with lack of confidence in player flipping/negotiation skills required to do what u do bro

Its now more of "I sit on my players cuz it's easier to do so and they're not bad. It's more work trying to do what shiv does because I cannot negotiate."

"I only draft or trade picks"
"1st round picks are gold"

Shift in trade market and entity of value is quite different now. Anton saw it and quit right away.
One blue chip prospect with 0 nhl game under belt is actually worth more or equal to a 40 point 27 yr old 2nd line nhl player now.

Shiv you may have to get with the times and shift your focus to depth beo

Matthew wroteCOLONHow is Fraser going to cycle G, when you clearly win the trade. He would need to clearly beat someone else in a trade for that to happen. We understand that YOU are attemtping to win cycles, which is probably why we aren't into the trades. But by all means, go back to the guys in the league from 3 years ago, who left us these terrible teams you tore apart. I think the difference is that we understand the cycles better than them, not the other way around.

Fraser wroteCOLONBlah you can come in here and insult my ability to run my team all you like, its not going to get you any closer to making a deal. But I think I've understood the concept of cycles and have been running this team just fine thank you very much. Hell I only have 3 pieces on my entire roster that are the same from when I took over the team, and have been one of the most active traders in this league during your 1 year sabbatical, but i wouldn't expect you to know that.

Giroux is an absolute elite piece, but nobody has the depth to pay the price you are looking for and come out ahead unless their minors are flushed with young NHLers being held off their roster due to depth.

No insults. I think your points are somewhat valid.

The issue is, you all will hit a point when you want to compete and everything will change. I don't see this as a "new market". I see this as a necessary phase in evolution. Giroux is worth 2 great bbklers, one with a very high ceiling. In situations where a high-ceiling player is not in the deal, there needs to be 3 players involved. This is a fact that will never change when you talk about players in the same class (Benn, Getzlaf, Sidney, Stammer etc.)

an arguably top 5 d-man in the league has already hit a very high ceiling.

kimmer wroteCOLONWeaver is valueless. Stop trying to include him in deals and it may help

Lol. Why is he valueless? Because he was on a team with super deep defense and didnt play much? Want to make a bet that he signs somewhere and is a full time 5/6 dman? I dare say that Seabrook is also a top 5 dman in BBKL. Offering good for good.

I dont bet with old people

Matthew wroteCOLONan arguably top 5 d-man in the league has already hit a very high ceiling.

Key word there is already hit - at the age of past 30. There was a year a few years ago when MSL was a top 5 winger in BBKL. He was being thrown around in deals for players like Kessel, Nash, Perry.

If I trade G for Giordano, I have to be ready for the decline that follows where he goes from a top 5-10 dman to a top 50 dman in the next few years because Giroux will be a top 10 BBKL piece for years to come. I must factor that in.

Matthew wroteCOLONan arguably top 5 d-man in the league has already hit a very high ceiling.

Yea what was that all about. Its a knock on him for being elite and having nowhere else to go? I suppose if all you are really looking at is added value, but you can't ignore ignore his current value, way more crucial thing to be looking at.

Robin Hood wroteCOLON

Matthew wroteCOLONan arguably top 5 d-man in the league has already hit a very high ceiling.

Key word there is already hit - at the age of past 30. There was a year a few years ago when MSL was a top 5 winger in BBKL. He was being thrown around in deals for players like Kessel, Nash, Perry.

If I trade G for Giordano, I have to be ready for the decline that follows where he goes from a top 5-10 dman to a top 50 dman in the next few years because Giroux will be a top 10 BBKL piece for years to come. I must factor that in.

If you expecting that kind of decline that quickly on Gio. We make horrible trading partners surrounding him. St. Louis is 40 Gio is 31. 30-35 elite level players still earn points.

Fraser wroteCOLON

Robin Hood wroteCOLON

Matthew wroteCOLONan arguably top 5 d-man in the league has already hit a very high ceiling.

Key word there is already hit - at the age of past 30. There was a year a few years ago when MSL was a top 5 winger in BBKL. He was being thrown around in deals for players like Kessel, Nash, Perry.

If I trade G for Giordano, I have to be ready for the decline that follows where he goes from a top 5-10 dman to a top 50 dman in the next few years because Giroux will be a top 10 BBKL piece for years to come. I must factor that in.

If you expecting that kind of decline that quickly on Gio. We make horrible trading partners surrounding him. St. Louis is 40 Gio is 31. 30-35 elite level players still earn points.

The problem is not just production. 30-35 players so quickly lose value in this league. Look at Zetterberg and Dats. They're 35 but no one wants them.

Robin Hood wroteCOLON

Fraser wroteCOLON

Robin Hood wroteCOLON

Matthew wroteCOLONan arguably top 5 d-man in the league has already hit a very high ceiling.

Key word there is already hit - at the age of past 30. There was a year a few years ago when MSL was a top 5 winger in BBKL. He was being thrown around in deals for players like Kessel, Nash, Perry.

If I trade G for Giordano, I have to be ready for the decline that follows where he goes from a top 5-10 dman to a top 50 dman in the next few years because Giroux will be a top 10 BBKL piece for years to come. I must factor that in.

If you expecting that kind of decline that quickly on Gio. We make horrible trading partners surrounding him. St. Louis is 40 Gio is 31. 30-35 elite level players still earn points.

The problem is not just production. 30-35 players so quickly lose value in this league. Look at Zetterberg and Dats. They're 35 but no one wants them.

Yea but were talking 4 bloody years from now until he's that age. That is a lot of BBKL years. You said it yourself you gotta know how to play the cycle game, that is a hell of a long time to assume that you would be holding onto a player in this league. To say I'm not gonna make a move for a payer because he might be hard to trade years down the line from now doesn't make any sense to me. I can see how you have built strong franchises, you know how to talk to people to get what you want, but I can see what you do and it ain't working here pal. There has clearly been some weak GM's in this league who have left some barren franchises by the wayside. And I know you've lumped us "new guys" all in one category, but were not all one size fit all here. Gonna give you some competition in this league here, so don't think I'm gonna be an easy guy to walk all over.

Entertaining read, I agree we have stronger GMs for some teams and it's a positive that we have seen less cringe-worthy deals where a bottom team trades away their valuable assets for pieces that won't make them a stronger team in the long run.

A different add then Gio and it probably makes sense for Fraser since he is becoming one of the stronger teams in the West. I don't know if I'd even want Nielsen + Simmonds + Gio for Crosby so I can understand why Shiv wants packages like that. I just don't get why he doesn't keep the elite #1 C since he is trying to win.

Bruyns wroteCOLONEntertaining read, I agree we have stronger GMs for some teams and it's a positive that we have seen less cringe-worthy deals where a bottom team trades away their valuable assets for pieces that won't make them a stronger team in the long run.

A different add then Gio and it probably makes sense for Fraser since he is becoming one of the stronger teams in the West. I don't know if I'd even want Nielsen + Simmonds + Gio for Crosby so I can understand why Shiv wants packages like that. I just don't get why he doesn'tkeep the elite #1 C since he is trying to win.

That word doesn't exist in his dictionary

Bruyns wroteCOLONEntertaining read, I agree we have stronger GMs for some teams and it's a positive that we have seen less cringe-worthy deals where a bottom team trades away their valuable assets for pieces that won't make them a stronger team in the long run.

A different add then Gio and it probably makes sense for Fraser since he is becoming one of the stronger teams in the West. I don't know if I'd even want Nielsen + Simmonds + Gio for Crosby so I can understand why Shiv wants packages like that. I just don't get why he doesn't keep the elite #1 C since he is trying to win.

I suppose it comes down to team building ideology. Been PMing with Steve at length about it, and I know we see eye to eye on how to build a successful roster. While its definetely more complicated than this, but in terms of BBKL stats they put up

Neilsen + Simmonds + Giordano put up more than twice the contribution than what Giroux + Deslauriers/Kenins + Pokka would. I would get significantly worse on a trade like this. If I had a couple high end players to come in out of the minors I could make myself better by consolidating assets into a single elite piece. But even then I could add value to be my roster more efficiently than moving 3 high end players for one of the best ones.

Ya. Fraser and I talk a lot of hockey. Wr agree on a lot actually.

Fraser is good stuff, enjoyed doing the awards with him

CAM wroteCOLON

kimmer wroteCOLONWeaver is valueless. Stop trying to include him in deals and it may help

Lol. Why is he valueless? Because he was on a team with super deep defense and didnt play much? Want to make a bet that he signs somewhere and is a full time 5/6 dman? I dare say that Seabrook is also a top 5 dman in BBKL. Offering good for good.

While there's considerably more Id put above him. I don't see any argument for him being over.

Gio, Subban, Burns, Letang, Weber, Karlsson, Doughty or Carlson. And even then I don't think his point in the conversation comes for some time.

Well this has been a fun read.

Nielsen still up for grabs. Currently at a hault in all talks after an initial flurry. All talks seemed to gravitate towards a younger defenseman +. That plus could be a center downgrade coming in, prospects, or an upgrade somewhere else on my roster. That's the framework that would be most attractive to me here. But I'm not limiting all offers to it.

Fraser wroteCOLONIf I had a couple high end players to come in out of the minors I could make myself better by consolidating assets into a single elite piece. But even then I could add value to be my roster more efficiently than moving 3 high end players for one of the best ones.

This is the point I was at this offseason, had some players I expect will be in the NHL and had no room for them so paid multiple pieces for Hall and Polak. Only so many roster spots available and definitely not trades I'd make if I didn't have depth.

Fraser wroteCOLON

CAM wroteCOLON

kimmer wroteCOLONWeaver is valueless. Stop trying to include him in deals and it may help

Lol. Why is he valueless? Because he was on a team with super deep defense and didnt play much? Want to make a bet that he signs somewhere and is a full time 5/6 dman? I dare say that Seabrook is also a top 5 dman in BBKL. Offering good for good.

While there's considerably more Id put above him. I don't see any argument for him being over.

Gio, Subban, Burns, Letang, Weber, Karlsson, Doughty or Carlson. And even then I don't think his point in the conversation comes for some time.

Well, It may be a stretch to say top 5 and i do retract that but across the board he is right there with these guys and that is considering he had a not so great year offensively. He is definitely top 10 on average across all cats in bbkl.

Seabrook is a better NHL'er than BBKL'er. Even Daley was significantly better than Seabrook in an 82 game projected season.