Buds Board Keepers League

Shep wroteCOLONGustavsson sucks. Plain and simple.

Thomas was almost chased out of town 2 years ago. Bruins fans were talking Thomas+ just to dump his salary.

I know they were.. how stupid would that have move looked now in retrospect?

Thomas is sick, don't get me wrong. But let's take a look here.

Top SV% in the NHL

2010-2011: Tim Thomas
2009-2010: Tuukka Rask
2008-2009: Tim Thomas

The system + Zdeno Chara = insane goalie numbers.

inferno31 wroteCOLON

MSP4LYFE wroteCOLONAfter tonight's performance I don't ever want to hear another person defend Jonas Gustavsson. Ben Scrivens faced just as hard shots as Gustavsson, if not tougher, and made it look easy. Gustavsson by comparison makes it look difficult, that my friends is the difference good goaltending makes. Hopefully the politics of the position don't come into play, and Gustavsson is demoted like he should have been a long time ago.

Won't happen.
Gus and Scrivens both stay till Reimer returns with whoever losing riding the bench. Reimer comes back and Scrivens goes down to the AHL. As HE SHOULD, if your a fan of Scrivens then you know the potential he has, I'd rather see him stopping pucks there than riding the pine as Reims plays here. Reimer himself went back down to the AHL after doing well in the NHL, Scrivens will have a similar fate and I'd rather he do that as well.

Hilarious the knee jerk reactions though, I thought a few games was too small a sample size? But apparently one game is enough? The leafs have great goaltending depth, and its a thing of fucking beauty.

On the topic of Scrivens, hes been great for a while, his skating is the best of any goalie in the Leafs system. Hes also got a calm demeanor, and great awareness. His ceiling maybe higher than Reimers, but if he gets there we'll have to see.

Gus and Rynnas play a very different style than Scrivens and Reimer, not all goalies move around as little and are as calm as the latter two. This doesn't however make them less effective at their position. As a fanbase we would of chased Tim Thomas out of town.

Terrible argument.

Ben Scrivens isn't some 20 year old kid playing pro hockey for the first time, Scrivens is 24 years old with 4 years of college hockey experience, half a season in the ECHL, and a half season in the AHL, as well as to begin this season. If Scrivens can continue to perform at the level he demonstrated not only tonight, but in multiple pre season games, and a large sample size in the AHL there is no reason to shelter him. Our starting goaltender, and future starting goaltender is James Reimer, Ben Scrivens is very likely to be our backup netminder, so why is it not alright for him to fill a role that he is likely destined for? Even if one believed Scrivens was the future goaltender, he isn't going to be handed the job, he will need to earn it as a backup first, not unlike Corey Schneider or Jonathan Bernier.

The comparison to Reimer is perhaps the most laughable suggestion of all though. Reimer lead this team to a 5 game winning streak last season, and in spite of that was sent down, the result was a losing streak, and Reimer being called back up shortly thereafter. At the time it was the wrong move, in hindsight it was the wrong move, and cost us valuable points in the standings. The Leafs didn't even gain significant development time for Reimer by demoting him, he was up in less than two weeks. One can only hope that the Scrivens situation is anything like the Reimer situation.

As for sample sizes, Gustavsson's is rather large (72 games to be exact), and in that time Jonas has posted a sub .900% which is well below average, and not good enough for a team with aspirations of winning games. If he were even league average I would understand keeping Scrivens down, because the potential exists for reduced production, but as it stands the worst case scenario is to replace a below average goaltender (Gustavsson) with another below average goaltender (Scrivens), the upside that of an average or above average backup netminder. If the result is the former you send Scrivens down, and go with Gus, his confidence and potential will not be ruined for having done so, but the Leafs may be better off for it.

I reiterate, not every fucking prospect needs to be coddled in the AHL, I said the exact same thing about Jake Gardiner in the pre-season that I am about Scrivens now. If a player is ready, and can help the team call them up...Worst case scenario they gain a better understanding of the areas they need to improve.

inferno31 wroteCOLON

Shep wroteCOLONGustavsson sucks. Plain and simple.

Thomas was almost chased out of town 2 years ago. Bruins fans were talking Thomas+ just to dump his salary.

I know they were.. how stupid would that have move looked now in retrospect?

Call me when Jonas Gustavsson wins the Vezina, better yet, call me when Jonas Gustavsson manages to record a league average save%.

Scrivens has played 39 games at a professional level. 39.
To suggest theres nothing left he has to work on and couldn't benefit from seeing more pucks in the AHL is ridiculous. He was a star at college, Reimer has been great for less than an entire season you can't say hes the goalie of the future (see fans in Boston with Raycroft and Columbus with Mason). Develop all the goalies in your system properly. Scrivens has the potential to be a starter in the NHL, I'd rather see him succeed playing 40-50+ games in the AHL which is more games that hes played in TOTAL at a pro level, than seeing far less at the NHL level.

Reimer only has 43 NHL games under his belt. He has been awesome so far, but lets hold off a bit before we anoint him as the future. Things change quickly.

Theres a big difference in developing goalies and other players, if you are going to play a star role or over 10-15 minutes a night even being in the NHL will help your development. If you are a goalie who won't see any action for 5-6 games in a row, not many people will suggest that is key learning experience.

No one is suggesting Scrivens can't learn more, however your comment implies that Scrivens cannot learn at the NHL level, it also implies that a player cannot be ready for the NHL without a significant amount of AHL time first, both of which are false, and asinine (I love the word if you haven't noticed).

As for the second point, you are right I cannot say Reimer is the starter of the future beyond any shadow of a doubt, but I can say that that is more than likely the case, which I did...In regards to Mason and Raycroft, you will have a difficult time arguing that they simply weren't as good as advertised. There are more than enough goaltenders and players alike that have come up early and had great careers, there is no correlation between starting early and future sucess, nor is there a correlation between starting late and future success, and again...24 is not young.

[quote]Theres a big difference in developing goalies and other players, if you are going to play a star role or over 10-15 minutes a night even being in the NHL will help your development. If you are a goalie who won't see any action for 5-6 games in a row, not many people will suggest that is key learning experience.[quote]

That is something that will happen inevitably, Scrivens isn't just going to steal the starting gig from Reimer...Also, with Reimer relatively inexperienced and unconditioned over a full season it is very likely that Scrivens see's between 25-30 starts as a backup, which is more than enough experience.

Scrivens has never played more than 36 games in a year. I'd rather see him get 50 game experience at a pro level. Reason being this, the kid has potential and could be a starter. If Reimer goes down for a season in the future I'd rather have a goalie come up who has experienced the hardships of a full season workload than throw in a guy who has never played more than 36 in a year ever at any level.

The leafs have real goaltending depth, I'm more than comfortable letting Gus play back up to Reimer this season. Scrivens is best served in the AHL learning how to pace himself for a full season if he is ever called upon to do so. Gus is a free agent after this season, Scrivens can back up next year as will likely happen. I say that as a fan of Gus's raw skill, Toronto simply may not be the team for him but I don't doubt his skill but thats a whole other debate.

On another note Rynnas is doing fairly well in the AHL, 24 years old and 6'5!

inferno31 wroteCOLONScrivens has never played more than 36 games in a year. I'd rather see him get 50 game experience at a pro level. Reason being this, the kid has potential and could be a starter. If Reimer goes down for a season in the future I'd rather have a goalie come up who has experienced the hardships of a full season workload than throw in a guy who has never played more than 36 in a year ever at any level.

The leafs have real goaltending depth, I'm more than comfortable letting Gus play back up to Reimer this season. Scrivens is best served in the AHL learning how to pace himself for a full season if he is ever called upon to do so. Gus is a free agent after this season, Scrivens can back up next year as will likely happen. I say that as a fan of Gus's raw skill, Toronto simply may not be the team for him but I don't doubt his skill but thats a whole other debate.

On another note Rynnas is doing fairly well in the AHL, 24 years old and 6'5!

Scrivens has potential whether or not he stays up with the Leafs, or gets demoted to the Marlies. It also opens up further time for Rynnas to develop, which is more beneficial given his raw game. The Leafs are in the hunt this season, and nothing could be better for Scrivens experience than to be apart of it, that and Gustavsson has proven time and time again that he cannot provide even league average goaltending, he has to go.

Pens Lose in Overtime. LEAFS NUMBER 1 in the league and its November! In other news it was chilly with a breeze in Hell today.

When they started their first NHL game:

Reimer - 22 years old, 44 AHL games
Gusto - 25 years old, 0 AHL games
Scrivens - 25 years old, 38 AHL games

inferno31 wroteCOLONPens Lose in Overtime. LEAFS NUMBER 1 in the league and its November! In other news it was chilly with a breeze in Hell today.

LOL

SEL smashing is pro Kareem.

NCAA is not.
ECHL is hardly.

Quote the portion where I said otherwise Nick. I look forward to your response.

I honestly don't see how people can still back up Gustavsson. Continuously lets in soft goals that only deflates the team. Rarely comes up with a game saving save (it happens, but then a soft goal occurs 10 minutes later).

Who the fuck cares about the goaltending situation. This thread is about hot wimminz.

Just posting my opinion since I know people care for it.

First off, a young defense generally gets by on "predictable" goaltending. Knowing that your goaltender will rarely be out of a position is important -- it gives defensemen the confidence that they can maintain some gap between puck carriers to cover passing/shooting lanes if they are going to front. If you watched Scrivens last night, you'll noticed something in particular that made me laugh out loud with glee: he got very creative with the puck a few times when he went to kill the play by scooping up the puck, and in a fluid motion, tossed it to the referee. That display of cockiness/confidence is an amazing boost of security for a team as young as the Leafs, knowing that their puck-stopper is mentally there.

Gustavsson is getting better at structuring his game, but struggles with controlling his enthusiasm. He's competitive, but prone to outbursts. Those outbursts are absolutely unnecessary. Being calm, relaxed, and purposeful in movement is goaltender 101. I'm not saying Gustavsson hasn't learned it, but as many have expounded on before, he's gone through quite a bit.

After watching Scrivens last night, he's a hybrid of Gustavsson and Reimer, and I think he'll be a good one.

Kezia wroteCOLONWho the fuck cares about the goaltending situation. This thread is about hot wimminz.

Nope.

scriven on a prayer looked good tonight.

very under control and calm - polar opposite of monster. similar to reimer.

reimer/scriven would be a very chill tandem.

For his first NHL game, he was very composed and showed no nerves whatsoever IMO.