Buds Board Keepers League

Nick wroteCOLONI question any GM that drafts on positional need.

Maybe way way down the priority list, but any GM thinking that short a term in regards to prospects should not be a GM.

Agreed. But I think the issue here is that people consider Jones the BPA - Roy's argument is a very valid counter to that albeit he did it in a stupid way.

I think we agree, just in a diferrent sense.

There is a skill for scoring goals and being offensively capable - and you can see it more clearly than the skill to defend at that same level.


The skills of defending that are transparent, to not always sum to the #1 package. EJ & JayBo both scream out as examples. Big, fast, good vision, very solid D, nice puck skills, good shots - yet neither is a stud #1 they project to be.

That same package as a forward, typically achieves much closer to their potnetial, and typically makes said impact sooner. I think power-forards are more like dman in regards to the wait and risk - the whole is greater than the sum of the parts for a #1PF or a #1 D-man. this is 100x more true for a #1 goalie.


I'd have to say, a scoring winger must be the safest call. very little on the 'unmeasureable' chart for a simple shoot & score player.

Nick wroteCOLONThe skills of defending that are transparent, to not always sum to the #1 package. EJ & JayBo both scream out as examples. Big, fast, good vision, very solid D, nice puck skills, good shots - yet neither is a stud #1 they project to be.

What seperate those two from a true #1 is their styles, both are top flight dman (EJ regressed a little but should be ok). they just dont' have the ability to scare anyone with their play.

guys like Chara, Pronger, etc...make your life hard while you're on the ice.

SuperMario wroteCOLON

Nick wroteCOLONI question any GM that drafts on positional need.

Maybe way way down the priority list, but any GM thinking that short a term in regards to prospects should not be a GM.

Agreed. But I think the issue here is that people consider Jones the BPA - Roy's argument is a very valid counter to that albeit he did it in a stupid way.

MacKinnon very well could be the best player in the draft...Jones get elevated because he's considered the best defenseman if not the best overall player. Some may say Drouin or even Barkov is the best forward in the draft. The question is, what's the drop off between Jones down to Nurse or Ristolainen versus the drop off from MacKinnon to Drouin or Barkov. Teams might worry about taking defenseman #1 but if he's the best player on your board, you have to trust that whether you're pick #1 or #2 or #3.

Fair Deals S wroteCOLON

Nick wroteCOLONThe skills of defending that are transparent, to not always sum to the #1 package. EJ & JayBo both scream out as examples. Big, fast, good vision, very solid D, nice puck skills, good shots - yet neither is a stud #1 they project to be.

What seperate those two from a true #1 is their styles, both are top flight dman (EJ regressed a little but should be ok). they just dont' have the ability to scare anyone with their play.

guys like Chara, Pronger, etc...make your life hard while you're on the ice.

Lidstrom is a Top 5 Dman of all time that didn't scare anyone. Those styles are more commonly effective, but to be able to shut players down without physical force is a much rarer attribute. Lidstrom controlled entire games, shut down opponents and never took penalties in doing so. So needless to say I entirely disagree with needing to scare your opponent as a necessary skill.

In the last 10 years only one dman to win the Norris, Chara, was of that breed. In fact if you want to go back all the way to the late 80's, it really is only Chelios, Pronger, Chara ,and if you want to stretch it Blake, that live up to that reputation. Lidstrom, Keith, Neidermyer, Bourque, Coffey, Leetch, McInnis etc are all more of the puck moving defender who defend with position and stick more so than physicality.

I just can't believe how often this "Physical" argument is used when clearly Hockey IQ, Skating, Positioning, First pass, Stick etc are the most important attributes for a defender. The fact that EJ and Jaybo didn't turn into number 1's is because they aren't lol, not because they aren't physical. look at Bogo, Schenn and others that are physical, they aren't number ones either. I just think people under estimate how rare that true number 1 is.

End Rant

i like dirty bags

i will always take a Pronger over a Keith...that said, it's not saying a keith is any less valuable.

Fair Deals S wroteCOLONi like dirty bags

i will always take a Pronger over a Keith...that said, it's not saying a keith is any less valuable.

That is because Pronger is better than Keith... A better comparable would be Pronger and Neidermayer.

shooker wroteCOLON Lidstrom is a Top 5 Dman of all time that didn't scare anyone. Those styles are more commonly effective, but to be able to shut players down without physical force is a much rarer attribute. Lidstrom controlled entire games, shut down opponents and never took penalties in doing so. So needless to say I entirely disagree with needing to scare your opponent as a necessary skill.

In the last 10 years only one dman to win the Norris, Chara, was of that breed. In fact if you want to go back all the way to the late 80's, it really is only Chelios, Pronger, Chara ,and if you want to stretch it Blake, that live up to that reputation. Lidstrom, Keith, Neidermyer, Bourque, Coffey, Leetch, McInnis etc are all more of the puck moving defender who defend with position and stick more so than physicality.

I just can't believe how often this "Physical" argument is used when clearly Hockey IQ, Skating, Positioning, First pass, Stick etc are the most important attributes for a defender. The fact that EJ and Jaybo didn't turn into number 1's is because they aren't lol, not because they aren't physical. look at Bogo, Schenn and others that are physical, they aren't number ones either.

Well said.

Btw, i don't buy the Gudbranson/Jones argument for the simple reason Seth Jones has more talent in one foot than Gudbranson in his whole body.

on a side note

ESPN reports that the leafs will keep komi in the minors and use their buy-outs as trade chips.

I guess the flyers have 1 more player they want bought out.

John Tortorella officially named Head Coach of the Canucks

http://canucks.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=674735

Fair Deals S wroteCOLONESPN reports that the leafs will keep komi in the minors and use their buy-outs as trade chips.

Dicks

Shoalzie wroteCOLON

Fair Deals S wroteCOLONESPN reports that the leafs will keep komi in the minors and use their buy-outs as trade chips.

Dicks

Nonis was on the FAN590 and explained in detail this situation.

He said they will wait until the end of the summer to see if they can use the buyouts to benefit the team. If they dont use them i can see them buying out Komi then.

They also suggested they may buy out komi and not use the compliance buy out,,and just take the 1.1mil in cap hit.

Fair Deals S wroteCOLON

Shoalzie wroteCOLON

Fair Deals S wroteCOLONESPN reports that the leafs will keep komi in the minors and use their buy-outs as trade chips.

Dicks

Nonis was on the FAN590 and explained in detail this situation.

He said they will wait until the end of the summer to see if they can use the buyouts to benefit the team. If they dont use them i can see them buying out Komi then.

They also suggested they may buy out komi and not use the compliance buy out,,and just take the 1.1mil in cap hit.

The compliance buyout period ends at the draft.

Shep wroteCOLONThe compliance buyout period ends at the draft.

Until next season of course. This is why players like booth and havlat cannot be bought out as they will be on the IR until after the compliance buyout period.

You should know steve is just fabricating these stories. I do love how he throws out radio station names to make his fabrications more believable lol.

i actually didn't

Nonis said he wasn't using a complaince buyout this summer. And said he'd re-visit it before the season.

he didn't mention when the period ended,,,he just made it seem like you could buy-out guys again once the season started.

@jhiitela: Kiprusoff has told to Finnish national team that he is retiring. "If Calgary has not announced it, you guys can do that." #Flames #Kipper

Kipper sounds like a teenager

Jagr, Pandolfo and Ference will not be back with the Bruins next year.

Blues Re-Sign Kevin Shattenkirk (4 years, $4.25M per)

SK74 to KHL, Per Bobby Mac